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Author Topic: Team Fortress 2: World's #1 War-Based Hat Simulator  (Read 827168 times)

misko27

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11340 on: March 07, 2016, 09:26:20 pm »

Competitive stress test! I'm having fun. The item server is down now though.
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MagmaMcFry

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11341 on: March 07, 2016, 10:05:53 pm »

Played a couple games too. One game I played with a group of five guys who all played gunslinger and then all huntsman. Had no choice but to lose that match (low priority sounds scary), at least I had fun with those guys. Five out of seven matches were on Foundry, four of them weren't 6v6, once there was a 1v1, and once we almost won a 4v6.

EDIT: New stress test is happening, people are learning how to teamwork, roller teams have absconded up the ladder, I've been winning almost continuously (I still only get sorted into Granary and Foundry for some reason), and I'm finally back to the part of the progress bar where you start.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 02:21:10 pm by MagmaMcFry »
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miauw62

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WealthyRadish

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11343 on: March 14, 2016, 08:02:22 pm »

I've felt pessimistic about matchmaking, because there are so many weapons that break the game at that level, but if people are confident that valve will actually make changes, then that's a reason to be optimistic. I mean, when things like the sandman, wrangler, pomson, disciplinary action, jag, reserve shooter, flying guillotine, *phlog*, vita saw, darwin's danger shield, natascha, tomislav, crit-a-cola, quickie spammer, loch 'n' load, direct hit, vaccinator, etc etc etc, are all given the royal treatment of horrible metas, they'll have to change something, right?
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Egan_BW

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11344 on: March 14, 2016, 08:17:34 pm »

[Names every weapon in the game, including stock] :P
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Shadowlord

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! Merry Smissmas everyone!
« Reply #11345 on: March 14, 2016, 11:08:32 pm »

You are right. It's for this reason that a W+M1 pyro will generally lose out to a S+M1 pyro, as the particles are trailing "behind" instead of bunching around due to forward momentum.

I assume that "generally" is just in case of people like me.
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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11346 on: March 15, 2016, 12:40:53 am »

[Names every weapon in the game, including stock] :P
Ban all weapons, allow only tauntkills.
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Reudh

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11347 on: March 15, 2016, 01:23:10 am »

I've felt pessimistic about matchmaking, because there are so many weapons that break the game at that level, but if people are confident that valve will actually make changes, then that's a reason to be optimistic. I mean, when things like the sandman, wrangler, pomson, disciplinary action, jag, reserve shooter, flying guillotine, *phlog*, vita saw, darwin's danger shield, natascha, tomislav, crit-a-cola, quickie spammer, loch 'n' load, direct hit, vaccinator, etc etc etc, are all given the royal treatment of horrible metas, they'll have to change something, right?

Some of those weapons are just strong and not distinctly overpowered.

Overpowered:

- Pomson: Projectile, while slow has a huge hitbox, isn't reflectable, drains cloak AND uber on hit, hurting two classes who effectively can't use their primary mechanics because an engineer fired into a choke or melee. Only saving grace is it's no longer a flat 20% reduction on hit, but instead falls off with distance like the Black Box does now.

- Crit-a-cola: Brief drinking period in which you are vulnerable in exchange for a free 35% more damage AND negation of damage falloff. The only bad thing about it is that you can't use a pistol to pester someone with. The "downside" of more damage taken is negligible: if you're playing Scout well, you're just hit and run, and your method of mitigating damage is by being fast enough to avoid it entirely.

- Vita-saw is overpowered purely in that in order to maintain an even playing field with an enemy medic, they are forced to run Vita-Saw as well.

- Darwin's Danger Shield is overpowered purely in that in order to maintain an even playing field with an enemy sniper, they are forced to run DDS as well.

- Reserve Shooter is a very, very strong weapon. It's not broken anymore, thankfully, but being smacked with up to 135 damage just because you're within the (rather janky) airblast range is not fun. At least you don't get punished for using the very most basic mobility mechanic available to any class anymore, that being jumping.

- Loch n' Load isn't nearly as insane as it used to, and no rollers and reduced splash on hit hurts Demo while he's operating in a group, but it's still very strong PURELY for the increased projectile speed. An increase in projectile speed effectively means increased effective range for Demoman, which a defensive class shouldn't really be needing, especially one based upon area denial. The loose cannon lost its projectile speed bonus, why couldn't Loch, but instead retain its old damage bonus?

Borderline:

Anything that negates movement options. That being Natascha and Sandman. Slow down fast classes if you can land a hitscan bullet on them? Stun any class for a period of time at almost any range besides point blank, using a fairly quick moving projectile with a generous hitbox.

The rest of those mentioned weapons, at least in comp, are strong but situational. Vaccinator? Totally able to be dealt with if you're rolling in a combo with more than one method of damage, eg. pyro + scout, demo + scout, soldier + pyro. Phlog? Keep out of flamethrower range. It's not as crazy as it used to be, as it now requires 300 instead of 225 fire damage and doesn't heal on taunt anymore. Additionally, the lack of an airblast REALLY hurts pyro's competitive viability, which is already very low.
Flying guillotine? Well... assuming the scout lands it, and the affected enemy doesn't get to any health packs before the DOT completes, you've gotten the equivalent of a single meatshot, at any range. It's pretty good for preventing crit heals too, but the fact that it takes 6 seconds to reload hurts its long range pestering vs. the pistol.
Disciplinary action... While speeding up slow classes is extremely powerful, most soldiers will run escape plan to mid as it gets them there faster than a whipped medic or other teammate would. It could see use with whipping heavies into action, but heavy already has the GRU for that.

EnigmaticHat

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11348 on: March 15, 2016, 01:39:40 am »

Sideshow has the right ideas about the future of 6s
He raises a very good point.  If you have 6 soldiers fight against 6 soldiers and one team has to push through chokes, with equal skill the defending team is already going to win.  Even tho soldier is an "offensive" character, he doesn't beat himself even if he's attacking.  And yet there are defensive classes that stack even further advantage on top of that.  Its a broken concept unless attacking carries some kind of advantage with it, which on most maps it clearly doesn't enough to balance things out.

I would say competitive TF2 has had a very stiff attitude towards the classes.  Valve's other competitive offerings should have demonstrated by now that you don't need everyone to be limited to the same tactics to have an interesting competitive game.  Yet competitive takes a game known for its variety of classes and unlocks and says "nope, you're all pretty much going to be running the same stuff with small variants".  And yeah that's not their fault, as the linked guy points out, Valve has done a bad job making the different classes and unlocks fun and balanced for serious players.  Its unfortunate tho.
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WealthyRadish

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11349 on: March 15, 2016, 02:17:29 am »


This is a very fair assessment, with some cops:

The vaccinator in its current incarnation seems fairly broken, just going off of pubs (since it's banned everywhere else). The ubers are built insanely quickly, multiple can be used simultaneously, and two could possibly be used in the first mid fight alone. But there's a bigger, major, glaringly fundamental problem with that weapon in 6v6, that justified it being banned across the board even when it sucked. In highlander, all kinds of spam is flying in from multiple damage types from players all over the place, but the vaccinator makes the medic and their target essentially completely immune to the kind of aggressive bombs that account for the majority of medic deaths in 6v6. Even if a roamer has a shotgun and pulls that, the medic probably has two ubers available anyway, and just having to attempt a shotgun kill instead puts the soldier at a large disadvantage. Scouts in a vaccinator meta also lose half their purpose, since they are essentially incapable of killing that medic. But with the other completely broken unlocks available, I think teams may still have at least one scout. And this is a meta that may very well have two medics, so having one on the vaccinator would be incredibly unpleasant. You can certainly say goodbye to the kritzkrieg forever.

The disciplinary action breaks the game in 6v6 (though in pubs it doesn't matter for diddly). Rocket jumping to mid and using the escape plan is of course going to be slightly faster on most maps, which is a big deal, but it's the effect it has on other teammates that really messes with things. I'm imagining the potential interactions with wrangler jag engineers, and it's making my face look like I got a fishhook stuck in my cheek. The heavy implication is also there, but it's also all the other off-classes coming out of the woodwork that makes me think the disciplinary action will be hated.

The guillotine is certainly broken in pubs, but I agree that it'll be less so in competitive, since the DoT is much less likely to matter. But the thought of the sandman being used in comp gets my jimmies intensely rustled, and the guillotine being used with it as well pushes it way over the edge. I love the combo dearly, it's completely righteous to make the pub heavies suffer, but in comp it is absolutely unacceptable, I don't think anybody could dispute that. The combo only makes it more insane.

One thing I forgot to mention, the beggar's bazooka, good god. I wonder how long it'll take for them to fix the reloading exploit, at the minimum.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11350 on: March 15, 2016, 02:22:09 am »

I think you mean the reloading feature. :P

But yeah, the Beggars is still crazy good even with it's -20% splash radius penalty. Just infinite groundspamming cheese cannon for days man.
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Reudh

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11351 on: March 15, 2016, 03:29:22 am »

I'm imagining the potential interactions with wrangler jag engineers

Oh god, I didn't even think about that. Sped up building movement, sped up construction, also lol shielding or wrangler jumps to get l3 setups in odd spots earlier than normal.

miauw62

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11352 on: March 18, 2016, 03:20:07 pm »

finally played a proper game of matchmaking with magma

we didn't drop a single game :v

cola is indeed pretty ridiculous and im torn between using it because it's just that good and feeling like my performance is just because of the cola.

also, getting backcaps is far too easy.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 03:31:59 pm by miauw62 »
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Quote from: NW_Kohaku
they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

TheBiggerFish

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11353 on: March 18, 2016, 03:29:39 pm »

PTW.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Team Fortress 2: Tough break update! "Hey, I was just gettin' started!"
« Reply #11354 on: March 19, 2016, 12:32:34 am »

finally played a proper game of matchmaking with magma

we didn't drop a single game :v

cola is indeed pretty ridiculous and im torn between using it because it's just that good and feeling like my performance is just because of the cola.

also, getting backcaps is far too easy.

No, abuse that shit as hard as you can. If it's truly overpowered, crush people with it in order to more quickly convince Valve to change it already.

And these early stress tests are going to be the biggest grab bag of skill during it's youth. As it gets older, the playerbase will mature and the cream among them will rise to the top, so you'll be very certain to hit players that are a challenge eventually. That's the beauty of MM.
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