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[MrRoboto75]

now pyro has a natasha to call his own

[IcyTea31]

My opinion always was that the way to balance the Phlog would be to nerf or remove one of the MMMPH boons. This is great news.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Definitely. Now Pyros can't rush a group of enemies and use the Phlog to both heal and prepare for an asskicking. Now they have to *gasp* sneak around and get into an advantageous position before using MMMPH instead of rushing the nearest clump of enemies. Otherwise they'll get shot to pieces before they can use the MMMPH or activate it too early and run out before doing much damage. And then get shot to pieces.

[JoshuaFH]

Choo Choo, the Phlog Train has reached it's final station, those looking to reach NoobsInPainsylvania must connect through either ShootGround Central, or Stickyspam Express.

[MrRoboto75]

Definitely. Now Pyros can't rush a group of enemies and use the Phlog to both heal and prepare for an asskicking. Now they have to *gasp* sneak around and get into an advantageous position before using MMMPH instead of rushing the nearest clump of enemies. Otherwise they'll get shot to pieces before they can use the MMMPH or activate it too early and run out before doing much damage. And then get shot to pieces.

So why not just use the backburner?

[miauw62]

because the backburner only crits from behind

[MrRoboto75]

because the backburner only crits from behind

But you already had to attack them from behind to gain any amount of success

And the backburner doesn't need to be charged to get crits, it always has them, and on top of that it has access to airblast.

[USEC_OFFICER]

So why not just use the backburner?

Because the Backburner is really finicky about the positioning of enemies before it activates its crits. It's a much narrower angle than a spy's backstab and so it can be hard to align yourself properly with an unaware enemy without wasting the opportunity. Also, having guaranteed crits for a short amount of time means that even if someone turns around and spots you you'll still be spewing out damage until MMMPH runs out or you die. As such the Backburner is over faster to use while the Phlong is more reliable once you build up MMMPH. Or something like that. _{Also the Phlong can't airblast but have you ever tried airblasting with the Backburner? At 50 ammo a pop, it generally ends up with you running for the closest ammo crate.}

[MrRoboto75]

The reason the phlog healed you on charge was to make up for the fact that you didn't have airblast.  Now, the phlog has no means of defense nor damage mitigation while the other three flamers have both, as airblast can negate damage by deflecting projectiles and now heals you when you help allies.

Now if you want to phlog, you either need to play way more passively, lobbing scorch shots and conserving health, or ambush with a lot of downtime as you need to go heal up yourself before you charge.  And if you are playing as passively as the former, you may as well run with airblast and help your team by negating damage on your medic combo or extinguishing teammates.

May as well switch to sticky demo at this point.  Twice as powerful, more damage and mobility, and just as easy in the average pub.  Isn't complained about constantly for no reason and best of all, isn't nerfed every third patch.

[Dorsidwarf]

Pyros in general are fucking ridiculous lately. Anything but a rocketjumping soldier or spinning heavy just dies, almost instantly.

I don't remember pyro being so much of a "kill at maximum range or die" class in the past.
Now all I see anywhere are pyros with medics popping uber and face ducking 4-sentry enginests, or lone back-burners charging L2 sentries from max range and killing it.

[JoshuaFH]

Pyros in general are fucking ridiculous lately. Anything but a rocketjumping soldier or spinning heavy just dies, almost instantly.

I don't remember pyro being so much of a "kill at maximum range or die" class in the past.
Now all I see anywhere are pyros with medics popping uber and face ducking 4-sentry enginests, or lone back-burners charging L2 sentries from max range and killing it.

Pyros are as weak as they've ever been, perhaps a bit weaker. They just have trouble dealing with anything outside of their range, and even there they have trouble since heavies, soldiers, scouts, and demos do just as much or more in the same range. Plus they have no recourse whatsoever to sentries, outside of reflecting Level 3 rockets.

[EnigmaticHat]

because the backburner only crits from behind

But you already had to attack them from behind to gain any amount of success

And the backburner doesn't need to be charged to get crits, it always has them, and on top of that it has access to airblast.

Crit noise is very startling, most players crit from behind will spin around.  Flamethrowers do damage in small but rapid ticks so unlike backstab or backscatter the short interval before they can react isn't going to accomplish much.

[Spehss _]

Pyros are as weak as they've ever been, perhaps a bit weaker. They just have trouble dealing with anything outside of their range, and even there they have trouble since heavies, soldiers, scouts, and demos do just as much or more in the same range. Plus they have no recourse whatsoever to sentries, outside of reflecting Level 3 rockets.

If they manage to get close enough to the sentry before it locks its aim on them, they can circle strafe it with a flamethrower. Assuming there is no support from the sentry's team.

[Reudh]

So while I don't know correct figures for flamethrower damage, the reason it loses out against the other classes in close combat is because it's a damage stream, rather than a damage burst. Same with Heavy - he deals damage in a stream, albeit a very "fast flowing" one at close range. Put it this way: Scout can deal 90-100 in one hit. It takes the scout a very short time to deal that 90-100. Pyro must be burning someone already for a small period of time.

I suppose the idea behind streams is to make them even to burst damage to keep them viable, but Pyro's damage stream is so low in comparison to say, Scout's 100 damage meatshots or Soldier's 100 damage rockets or Demo's 100 damage nades or Heavy's superiorly damaging damage stream in the same effective area.

Heck, a top tier Engi seperated from his gun is *probably* able to beat a pyro one on one.

The other day while I was doing just fine as Pyro, with Stock/Flare/Powerjack, a good scout RIPPED through me. It got to the point that I'd rather just airblast and flee rather than try and fight this scout, as he would barely be grazed while i struggled to approach.

[IcyTea31]

The Pyro has access to two different shotguns. Burst damage is not out of question for the class. Many are the Scouts who thought they could hit and run to avoid my flames, only to take buckshot into their backs.