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[miauw62]

The last point being awful to push is a problem that afflicts payload maps in general, not just Borneo. The only decent last on a PL map is badwater's, the others are all trivialized by two or more skilled engies.

I haven't actually gotten many chances to play Borneo yet, the map always seems to change rather quickly.
Also, as I have said, powerhouse is the new incarnation of 2fort: terribly designed, but very, very fun to play on.

[JoshuaFH]

Well, Borneo was designed to be a 9v9 Highlander (one of each class) map, not a 12v12 no class limit map. So the proper flow of the map is damaged when converted over to Valve server usage.

Same thing with Suijin, it was meant to be a map for the Arena Respawn custom game mode, which is 5v5 one-max class limits with a pick n ban system for any classes either team doesn't like... but it got retrofitted to ordinary 12v12 no class limit KOTH

[hops]

Playing sniper on Powerhouse is a pretty good excuse to dust off one's ol' SMG. There's not much point using Jarate since the ammo drop pretty much allows you to shoot at anyone who go through ad infinitum, people occasionally try to rush you through the side entrance which you can then escape through either the window or into your base if they're too much to handle. Not to mention while you get a pretty good sight on things in the middle point, you can't be a dick and camp on people trying to cap.

[EnigmaticHat]

Going to join the "this update makes me lag for no apparent reason" crowd.

[Iceblaster]

Going to join the "this update makes me lag for no apparent reason" crowd.

Welcome to the club!

[MrRoboto75]

Heavy is damn near impossible to play without being downright frustrating.  You need a medic shoved up your ass so far he becomes a hairpiece just to transcend to 'meh' tier.

Without a medic, your supposedly 'high' health means nothing.  You take one extra hit to die, whoop-de-doo.  And once you take damage there is so much downtime to mitigate it, either waddling to health packs or being stationary eating sandviches.  One fight will whittle you down to nothing.

The damage nerf is the real kicker, just kills the class.  The minigun's dps is just cut in half for the first second of firing.  Anytime you stop firing, the nerf resets, so you end up spamming like an idiot just so maybe you'll do damage.  The minigun just isn't a threat anymore.  Everyone either just casually walks away or just outdamages you and kills you.

People say the new tomislav makes up for it, I think its still crap.  Your damage is still cut in half, so what if you spin up slightly faster.

After playing heavy, I just switch to demo or soldier.  Soldier can be just as tanky, move faster, and do more damage.

[Calidovi]

rant

The heavy may not be extremely fun and I resent the game designers for doing that, but he does very well as posing as a distraction while the DPS squad go in and do their work. Nonetheless, I still expect him to get a buff.

[JoshuaFH]

Heavy is damn near impossible to play without being downright frustrating.  You need a medic shoved up your ass so far he becomes a hairpiece just to transcend to 'meh' tier.

Without a medic, your supposedly 'high' health means nothing.  You take one extra hit to die, whoop-de-doo.  And once you take damage there is so much downtime to mitigate it, either waddling to health packs or being stationary eating sandviches.  One fight will whittle you down to nothing.

The damage nerf is the real kicker, just kills the class.  The minigun's dps is just cut in half for the first second of firing.  Anytime you stop firing, the nerf resets, so you end up spamming like an idiot just so maybe you'll do damage.  The minigun just isn't a threat anymore.  Everyone either just casually walks away or just outdamages you and kills you.

People say the new tomislav makes up for it, I think its still crap.  Your damage is still cut in half, so what if you spin up slightly faster.

After playing heavy, I just switch to demo or soldier.  Soldier can be just as tanky, move faster, and do more damage.

You actually got it mostly right. Most of heavy's skill ceiling comes from the fact that he's so slow, you have to read the current battle situation correctly at all times and orient your timing and position in preparation for conflict, and the slowness makes that unforgiving.

The Tomislav's 20% tighter accuracy actually has an interesting mathematical property. A more experienced player showed it to me with just a picture how the heavy's cone of bullets is tightened, that at point blank range your damage is reduced by the 20% firing speed, but past a certain range threshold the tighter cone actually means your effective midrange dps is increased by 56%! It's a favorite among heavies with excellent tracking.

But trust me when I say that becoming a good heavy is pretty easy, but becoming a GREAT heavy requires an enormous input of effort.

[Spehss _]

heavy

Heavy without medic can be real good at blockading a route. Just camp in an area with a health pack drop to provide health, or near a team dispenser so you can retreat and heal up. Obviously alone you will not be able to tank through a combined enemy force but you can prevent lone enemies from going through your blockade, whether by killing them outright or providing a wall of dakka to deter them.

I think a big part of playing heavy is knowing how to pick your battles. Even with a medic you aren't invincible, and you need to know what you can stand up against without dying or putting the medic in too much danger before they're uber is charged.

Heavy + medic can be a big juggernaut and offensive force, provided they have team support. Without medic, heavy is a team member to support the team. You can't expect a fat guy with a minigun to be able to tank an entire enemy team on his own.

rant

The heavy may not be extremely fun and I resent the game designers for doing that, but he does very well as posing as a distraction while the DPS squad go in and do their work. Nonetheless, I still expect him to get a buff.

Kinda funny you say the heavy isn't a part of the dps squad. I think heavy is the most straightforward dps based class. Just point the machinegun and fire dakka until the enemy's health is zero.

edit: ninja'd by josh. He has some good points on the whole "picking your battles" thing and heavy's speed I didn't consider.

[JoshuaFH]

Also remember you have a sandvich for heals. The Tomigruvich playstyle is alive and well with the Gun Mettle Update, obviously just needing the Tomislav, sandvich, and Gloves of running urgently. It's a very self-sufficient heavy playstyle useful in pubs.

[hops]

Heavy... is frustrating?

I'm a Sniper main and really I haven't read any Heavy guides, but when I go Heavy on Defense I almost never die if I don't walk into open areas and spycheck often.

What Heavies don't seem to get is that any competent Sniper can and /will/ kill you if you stay in his line of sight long enough for him to charge his shot. Without a medic on you, Heavy is not able to act as offense, and should serve as more of a mobile sentry.

[Spehss _]

Heavy... is frustrating?

I'm a Sniper main and really I haven't read any Heavy guides, but when I go Heavy on Defense I almost never die if I don't walk into open areas and spycheck often.

What Heavies don't seem to get is that any competent Sniper can and /will/ kill you if you stay in his line of sight long enough for him to charge his shot. Without a medic on you, Heavy is not able to act as offense, and should serve as more of a mobile sentry.

I'd think a good rule of thumb for any class is to stay out of the sightlines of snipers. Except for snipers. Snipers sniping other snipers makes for snipers that aren't busy trying to snipe me.

[EnigmaticHat]

Y'all aren't playing heavy right.

Buffalo steak sandvich + fists of steal.  Minigun choice is irrelevant.  Who cares if they're minicriting?  Who cares if they're critting?  Show them what your fists are made of!

Hint: its steel.  GRU also works for this, if you can accomplish the difficult but possible task of being stealthy as Heavy

[hops]

Heavy... is frustrating?

I'm a Sniper main and really I haven't read any Heavy guides, but when I go Heavy on Defense I almost never die if I don't walk into open areas and spycheck often.

What Heavies don't seem to get is that any competent Sniper can and /will/ kill you if you stay in his line of sight long enough for him to charge his shot. Without a medic on you, Heavy is not able to act as offense, and should serve as more of a mobile sentry.

I'd think a good rule of thumb for any class is to stay out of the sightlines of snipers. Except for snipers. Snipers sniping other snipers makes for snipers that aren't busy trying to snipe me.

Soldiers can sort of spam rockets at the sniper and then run away really fast. Of course, the sniper still could take a shot at you, but if you time it right you'll just lose 150 HP and the sniper will get gibbed by the rockets he chose to ignore.

[miauw62]

I once killed half the enemy team by flanking them with steak'd kgb on badwater's second point.

Also, sandvich is pretty good. Just fall back a little and heal up, it doesn't take long and it's hard to out-danage the healing for some classes.