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[Flying Carcass]

I've played that map (though for whatever reason the times I've played it the skybox didn't render so I just got pink and black boxes). It's big, but not too bad.

[Fniff]

You know, after I kept getting 2fort when playing "random", for a while I thought I was actually really shit at TF2. Then I went to play on a CP game. Turns out I'm fine. It's just that 2fort is a terrible map. I've learned to appreciate how well-designed the other maps are in comparison.

[EnigmaticHat]

You know, after I kept getting 2fort when playing "random", for a while I thought I was actually really shit at TF2. Then I went to play on a CP game. Turns out I'm fine. It's just that 2fort is a terrible map. I've learned to appreciate how well-designed the other maps are in comparison.

Yeah, TF2 map design has improved greatly over the game's lifespan.

General rule for TF2 maps: there should be three separate paths forward for an attacking team at every point in the map.  If there aren't, its probably a bad map.

2Fort seems to almost pass on the surface except for a few places with only 2.  But then you realize that many of the different paths are visible from each other so a sentry can stop multiple ways forward.  And most classes can't get to the important parts of the map without going through the back "barn" area.  Plus the sewers, while an effective entrance, take too damn long for how far they take you.

[miauw62]

There are a lot of terrible maps, but most of them are still sort of fun to play. (I have come to love dustbowl's third stage)
Thats true for most vanilla maps that are terrible, with one notable exception: junction.
I hate junction with a burning passion.

[Metalax]

There was a redesign of 2fort floating around a couple of years ago that fixed many of the worst path design problems, such as adding a drop down from the sewers to the basement(return to the sewers limited to explosive jumpers/triple jump Scouts/FAN Scouts), redesign of the courtyard such that a single sentry can't cover all the base entries and a better distribution of ammo/health pickups following the redesign.

Unfortunately I can't recall what they named the map and I've not found it again when jumping to random servers with a promising map name.

[JoshuaFH]

It's true that some bad maps are enjoyed despite that. I personally love Harvest, even though it has the most easily spawn-camp-able spawn of any map period.

[miauw62]

I JUST TRIED DEMOKNIGHT
ITS SO FUCKING FUN HOLY SHIT

and i can even get MPV with it ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Fniff]

Do not fall into temptation, brother! Use the demoman as it was intended by God Gabe!

[Spehss _]

Do not fall into temptation, brother! Use the demoman as it was intended by God Gabe!

So long as you're using the grenade launcher you're using demoman like a good demoman. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

No really. Pure sword and board melee demoknights can't blow anything up. With a grenade launcher or loch n load a good demoman still retains the ability to blow lots of things up with direct hits and can area denial with rollies.

[Flying Carcass]

I JUST TRIED DEMOKNIGHT
ITS SO FUCKING FUN HOLY SHIT

and i can even get MPV with it ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Demoknight's a blast. Who needs explosives when one's got "YAAAAAH!"?

[Spehss _]

Demoknight's a blast. Who needs explosives when one's got "YAAAAAH!"?

I prefer the best of both worlds with my loadout of Eyelander+Targe+Face Melting Grenade Launcher. You got YAAAAH and EXPLOSIOOOOOONS.

God I luv my grenade launcher.

[Teneb]

Demoknight's a blast. Who needs explosives when one's got "YAAAAAH!"?

I prefer the best of both worlds with my loadout of Eyelander+Targe+Face Melting Grenade Launcher. You got YAAAAH and EXPLOSIOOOOOONS.

God I luv my grenade launcher.

I dislike the targe when demoknighting, due to the slow recharge, and favour the Splendid Screen instead due to the charge damage. Strange Bottle + Splendid Screen + Loch/Default is my demoknight loadout.

[Spehss _]

Splendid Screen is also quite good. I mostly use the Targe because I feel like it. The fire resistance is also nifty sometimes. Maybe once I get a Tide Turner my opinion will change.

Never got into the Loch n Load. The sped up projectile speed screws up my projectile prediction and basically ruins my aim with it. Plus the grenade launcher's rollies are too useful for temporary area denial or just spamming over walls or out of line of sight. Plus I only have a strange grenade launcher, heh.

[Leafsnail]

I think the Tide Turner is by far the best if you're actually playing Demoknight (as opposed to Shielded Grenademan Who Runs Away Sometimes).  Straight charges are very easy to predict and avoid, curvy ones are not.  You can initiate what looks like a retreat then do a 180 and murder your pursuer.  You can follow beams and launch charges at medics from places where they can't even see you.  You can, with a bit of creativity, set up virtually instantaneous flanking moves on enemies that are firing straight at you (by charging around pillars and stuff).

The recharge element isn't as important, but it's certainly fun to decapitate 4 snipers in the space of a few seconds.  Or alternatively to murder their medic and then instantly charge away.

One major tip for demoknight - if you land a shield bash, even a shield bash that does zero damage, you get a free crit if you take a swing straight after with your melee.  You get this no matter where you were in your charge.  This is why I don't think the Screen is very useful - if you've landed the bash you've already killed or nearly killed most classes anyway.  Theoretically it helps against the Heavy, but it's pretty fucking difficult to make a straight charge at a guy with a minigun.

[Spehss _]

Shielded Grenademan Who Runs Away Sometimes

Well, I think I found a name for my grenade launcher. I was planning on going with some jimi hendrix reference to match my groovy pink afro buuuuuuuut this pretty much describes my tactics too perfectly.