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[Leafsnail]

As a gunslinger sentry you want your metal to rebuild your sentry, though.  The whole point of it is that you  compromise on how good your sentry is in return for it being very disposable and easy to build repeatedly.

Widowmaker depends on your skill at aiming. Don't see how other player's skills impact your own skill at aiming aside from bad players being easier targets.

Because as you say good players are more difficult targets, and I find it deeply unlikely that you'd get more than 6 shots off in a row against competent opponents at an appropriate range unless you're being ubered or something.  You should surely have been shot dead by non-shit players by that point.

That said I can sortof see the appeal if you're using the pistol so you have another option for longer range.

[EnigmaticHat]

Because as you say good players are more difficult targets, and I find it deeply unlikely that you'd get more than 6 shots off in a row against competent opponents at an appropriate range unless you're being ubered or something.  You should surely have been shot dead by non-shit players by that point.

Its a hitscan weapon so there's only so good you can be at dodging it.

As for return fire... it takes a little creativity, sure.  But 2 out of the 5 "combat" classes suck against you (scouts can't get close because fuck minisentries, pyros are the same but slower, have greatly reduced DPS, and airblast won't help them), one of them sucks at chasing and has to spin up to kill your minisentry, and the remaining two are admittedly pretty good against you.  But still, two dodge-able rockets/grenades to kill you, two to kill your minisentry... you can be pretty annoying, especially if you're creative about where you put the mini-sentry and yourself.  On top of that you get to be one of only two classes that can directly heal others, and you'll kill/easily run away from all the other support/assassin classes.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah those are all good things about the mini-sentry but I'm still not sold on the Widowmaker.

Incidentally the mini-sentry has apparently been nerfed, the hitbox is now much larger.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Before:

After:

They seem to catch pipebombs and rockets a lot more now.

[Knirisk]

I'm actually quite a fan of the widowmaker+gunslinger combo. I love the manic MUST SETUP ALL THE THINGS AT ONCE! that goes on. For me, mini-sentries are fun as fuck because they get destroyed easily, so you're not just whacking a single sentry with your wrench while waiting to be backstabbed. Also, they help make up for my generally shit aim, and the engineer is useful for other things besides a level 3 sentry anyway.

The only reason I like the widowmaker at all is because there's no need to reload. That's... about it. I mean, others could probably find a positive reason to like the widowmaker, but I just like it because there's no need to reload. It...kind of sucks if you can't hit anything, though, because technically, you only get 6 shots unless you manage to do damage. Usually, though, you'll be able to do around 20 damage or so at the minimum, and any combat effectiveness lost through not having ammo is generally made up through blatant use of the mini-sentry.

[MrWiggles]

the larger hit box would probably explain why the FoN can now actually kill them.

[crazysheep]

Apparently the minisentry hitbox issue was fixed in last week's update.

[MrWiggles]

The 9mb one?

[crazysheep]

Not sure about the size of the update, but it's this one here: http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=14353

The patch notes include this:
> Fixed Mini-Sentry collision hull and hitbox being scaled smaller than they should be

[miauw62]

I just use the shotty and pistol for my gunslinger engie. Six shots from a shotty brings a heavy down to a sliver of his health, so if you combine that with a minisentry...
Pistol is also really useful and underestimated.

Gunslinger engie goes best with another "normal" engie, since you can help and assist him or give him your disp for protection while you run around and shoot dudes. This works especially well on gorge, in my experience.

[Metalax]

Ah yes, pistol on the Engie. Unless you are deliberately going out of your way to avoid sources of ammo you are never going to run out of bullets for it, even spamming it regularly at favoured spy hiding spots. Especially if you focus on enemies you have seen take damage or are obviously retreating for health, you can get a surprising number of kills.

[Mech#4]

I like how the pistol fires nearly as fast as you can click. I find when it comes to spies, it's not so much trying to kill them but just making them jumpy and making mistakes. A spy who just got hit by a stray bullet is probably going to move in case more are coming, potentially bumping into someone.

[Spehss _]

I like how the pistol fires nearly as fast as you can click.

Pistol actual has a limit to the fire rate. This was done because people were binding fire to mouse wheel and then using mousewheel to get ludicrous firing speeds that were impossible to achieve just by clicking fast.

[EnigmaticHat]

I like how the pistol fires nearly as fast as you can click. I find when it comes to spies, it's not so much trying to kill them but just making them jumpy and making mistakes. A spy who just got hit by a stray bullet is probably going to move in case more are coming, potentially bumping into someone.

You have no idea the shit I've pulled off as spy by ignoring people who are shooting me.  The fact that that trick works is the best thing that newb spies baby sphees have ever done for me.

[JoshuaFH]

I like how the pistol fires nearly as fast as you can click. I find when it comes to spies, it's not so much trying to kill them but just making them jumpy and making mistakes. A spy who just got hit by a stray bullet is probably going to move in case more are coming, potentially bumping into someone.

You have no idea the shit I've pulled off as spy by ignoring people who are shooting me.  The fact that that trick works is the best thing that newb spies baby sphees have ever done for me.

Fun fact: disguised spies have an intrinsic knockback reduction bonus. This is the most noticeable with the force of nature, where even scoring a clean, close-range meatshot on'em just gently pops them into the air, as opposed to hurling them across the map like it'll do with even heavies.

[EnigmaticHat]

Yup, its especially fun because you can get splashed by rockets and not move an inch.