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[Aqizzar]

Hey folks.  I'm doing a speech on the practice of judicial review for a class (so it'll be mostly bullshit), and part of the assignment is I have to give out a survey, for the audience's view on the topic.  So I wrote this, and I thought you guys might like to take a crack at it.  And to head off comments about other questions I should have asked, it has to fit on a sheet of paper, with writing space, so it's pretty short.  These were the best I could think of in the last 20 minutes.  I'll let y'all know how it turns out, should be fascinating.


1) What does the term “rational” mean to you?  (Either a definition or interpretation is fine.)


2) How would you define a “belief”?  (This does not imply that “belief” and “rational” must be distinct.)
(This also need not be a religious question, but that is of course applicable.)


3) Would you include morality under this definition?  (If not, can you shortly describe why?)


4) Do you believe that laws and legal practice are or should be a reflection of any particular system of morality?  Would this be your own?


5) Do you believe a person can choose to act with complete disregard for their beliefs?
(This does not necessarily mean against their beliefs, but would naturally include the possibility.)


6) With those statements in mind, do you believe Judges can be impartial to all, or even any, cases?
Do you believe they should be?

[Duke 2.0]

1) What does the term “rational” mean to you?
Something can be described as rational if it has been given some serious thought and logical processes have been applied.

2) How would you define a “belief”? 
Belief is putting ones trust in something despite either a lack of rationality or the inability of rationality to be applied to it.

3) Would you include morality under this definition?  Under belief? It depends on the person and the morals as well as the reasons they trust these morals. Some morals can easily be defined through rationality, while others require a bit of belief or are believed blindly. Morality is such a brad category that applying a single definition to it all would be idiotic.


4) Do you believe that laws and legal practice are or should be a reflection of any particular system of morality?  Would this be your own?
The current laws of the United States is technically a belief system, centering around the moral of freedom. Heck, laws are the manifestation of a belief system being enforced. Due to the brad range of belief systems and rational systems(As rationality can sometimes lead to two vastly different conclusions depending on how you rationalize), it would be reckless for a code of laws to be based around one person under their influence if the morality driving the whole thing is freedom and equality for all.

5) Do you believe a person can choose to act with complete disregard for their beliefs?
Of course. Not everybody has strong enough of a willpower to always enforce their belief systems or rational systems.

6) With those statements in mind, do you believe Judges can be impartial to all, or even any, cases?
Do you believe they should be?
Yes. Another morality is the sense of Duty. As much as a person can disagree with the outcome they are a facing, Duty can compel them to take the outcome defined by the laws of the land. This is as they should be, as judges should be the arbiters of the law. Of course, removing their rationality, belief and morality would depend on the morality of the code of laws they abide by.

I would like to note a few of those questions seem a bit centered around the US system of government, but only as examples.

[Cthulhu]

Hey folks.  I'm doing a speech on the practice of judicial review for a class (so it'll be mostly bullshit), and part of the assignment is I have to give out a survey, for the audience's view on the topic.  So I wrote this, and I thought you guys might like to take a crack at it.  And to head off comments about other questions I should have asked, it has to fit on a sheet of paper, with writing space, so it's pretty short.  These were the best I could think of in the last 20 minutes.  I'll let y'all know how it turns out, should be fascinating.


1) What does the term “rational” mean to you?  (Either a definition or interpretation is fine.)
Based on logical reasoning and sound evidence.

2) How would you define a “belief”?  (This does not imply that “belief” and “rational” must be distinct.)
(This also need not be a religious question, but that is of course applicable.)
A strongly held opinion that may or may not be based on sound evidence and reasoning.

3) Would you include morality under this definition?  (If not, can you shortly describe why?)
Sometimes.  Some forms of morality are part of an individual person's beliefs, while others are almost universal among varying cultures and groups.

4) Do you believe that laws and legal practice are or should be a reflection of any particular system of morality?  Would this be your own?
No.  They should be for the protection of individuals/groups and their rights.

5) Do you believe a person can choose to act with complete disregard for their beliefs?
(This does not necessarily mean against their beliefs, but would naturally include the possibility.)
Yes

6) With those statements in mind, do you believe Judges can be impartial to all, or even any, cases?
Do you believe they should be?
I believe they should, but isn't that kind of a blanket statement?  That all judges can be impartial to all cases?  I highly doubt that, but I think a judge with his priorities in order can be impartial.

[Jude]

I don't really believe that people's minds can generate pure rationality because we really didn't evolve to do that

[Granite26]

1) What does the term “rational” mean to you?  (Either a definition or interpretation is fine.)

A belief that can be arrived at through logic using apparently truths

2) How would you define a “belief”?  (This does not imply that “belief” and “rational” must be distinct.)
(This also need not be a religious question, but that is of course applicable.)

Something an individual holds to be true

3) Would you include morality under this definition?  (If not, can you shortly describe why?)

Yes, morality are beliefs.  That does not make them irrational (or untrue)

4) Do you believe that laws and legal practice are or should be a reflection of any particular system of morality?  Would this be your own?

The law should be based on rationally proven truths.  Moral beliefs that cannot be rationally proven are the domain of social mores, not the law

5) Do you believe a person can choose to act with complete disregard for their beliefs?
(This does not necessarily mean against their beliefs, but would naturally include the possibility.)

No, our beliefs tint our thinking and perception of the world.

6) With those statements in mind, do you believe Judges can be impartial to all, or even any, cases?
Do you believe they should be?

Yes.  Rational truth is readily observable or derived from the readily observable.  Quis Custodiet and all, I don't think many ARE truly impartial.
No.  Legally, the concept of reasonable doubt and true enough needs to be left to the discretion of someone.  I would agree that judges should only have the option of mercy, however.

[Aqizzar]

You know what the sad part is?

MSWord 07 hates OpenOffice, so my file for this got deformatted when I tried to print it at the campus library and had to retype the questions from memory.  I forgot to add all the "Why do you think this?" type postscripts.

I got almost nothing but yes/no answers from 27 people.  Fucking useless.

[Granite26]

Handouts are useless for anything real... Typing is way easier (and thus more robust).

Thought about doing a web based quiz?

[Joseph Miles]

1) What does the term “rational” mean to you?  (Either a definition or interpretation is fine.)

---A logical and calm way of addressing a situation.


2) How would you define a “belief”?  (This does not imply that “belief” and “rational” must be distinct.)
(This also need not be a religious question, but that is of course applicable.)

---The code one follows in their daily life, be it religious or otherwise.

3) Would you include morality under this definition?  (If not, can you shortly describe why?)

---Yes

4) Do you believe that laws and legal practice are or should be a reflection of any particular system of morality?  Would this be your own?

---Yes, it should be a reflection of a moral system. No, it should not be my own, I hold myself to high standards of conduct, and doubt that many people would have an easy enough time following such standards as I have set forth for myself.

5) Do you believe a person can choose to act with complete disregard for their beliefs?
(This does not necessarily mean against their beliefs, but would naturally include the possibility.)

---Unfortunately, yes. There have been times when I've acted against my own beliefs, if not simply because it was the lesser of two evils.

6) With those statements in mind, do you believe Judges can be impartial to all, or even any, cases?
Do you believe they should be?

---No, I don't think they can truly be impartial. They'd have to have no beliefs or morals of their own, and need to be brought up in such a way that no case brought before them could be a reflection, in any way, of their own lives, lest they think back to an occasion similar in their life to the experience and lean to one side or the other. I do not think it possible for a human to be impartial on anything, so I don't think that they should be impartial because I don't think that it'd be possible for them to be truly human if they were capable of such.

[inaluct]

You know what the sad part is?

MSWord 07 hates OpenOffice, so my file for this got deformatted when I tried to print it at the campus library and had to retype the questions from memory.  I forgot to add all the "Why do you think this?" type postscripts.

I got almost nothing but yes/no answers from 27 people.  Fucking useless.

So, you got a few that weren't just yes/no answers? What were they?

[Jamuk]

1) What does the term “rational” mean to you?  (Either a definition or interpretation is fine.)
Being able to use logic in decision-making, an overly excited person is often thought to be 'irrational' because they are so worked up they can't step back and make logical decisions.

2) How would you define a “belief”?  (This does not imply that “belief” and “rational” must be distinct.)
(This also need not be a religious question, but that is of course applicable.)
Things held to be true.  The logic in a rational decision is based on a person's beliefs, which means someone can appear rational to one person and irrational to another.

3) Would you include morality under this definition?  (If not, can you shortly describe why?)
Which one? It would fit under belief, as it is a part of our fundamental understanding of how things work.  It wouldn't fit under rationality however.  A sociopath is thinking rationally, however much people might wish to say otherwise.
4) Do you believe that laws and legal practice are or should be a reflection of any particular system of morality?  Would this be your own?
Of course it should be my own.  I mean why wouldn't someone want their views to be considered the correct ones?  But no not really, it's a matter of opinion.  If there was a way to avoid the question of morality completely then that would be the best way, but since people want government to protect them that will never happen.

5) Do you believe a person can choose to act with complete disregard for their beliefs?
(This does not necessarily mean against their beliefs, but would naturally include the possibility.)
  It's possible to act against some of their beliefs, but not -all-. If they're forced at gunpoint that's because they 'believe' that their life is worth more than resisting.
(And no I wouldn't hold a gun to anyone's head Promise)

6) With those statements in mind, do you believe Judges can be impartial to all, or even any, cases?
Do you believe they should be?
No, it's impossible.  Humans are not logical creatures, we have to train ourselves to think logically and what little this achieves comes at great difficulty.

[Cthulhu]

Waaay too dark, Jamuk.

Also, did you get any stupid and/or crazy answers?

[Aqizzar]

I'll collate my results shortly.  I'm in the middle of doing my laundry.

At a quick glance, I'm seeing an awful lot of "something that thinks"/"sane"/"logical"/"I don't know" answers for #1, so I'm not too hopeful.  A lot of obvious answers for Beliefs.

Virtually all Yes for #3, a few Maybes, a couple Nos.  Really wish I'd put a "Why?" on there, because I could really use some explanations.

All over the scale on #4.  Some bitterness, some ambivalence, one claim to the Ten Commandments being America's legal basis.

Almost all flat Yeses on #5.  The only longer answers were religious, and they were still Yes.

A lot of waffling and ranging on #6, including some flatly contradictory answers.

[Splendiferous]

1) What does the term “rational” mean to you?  (Either a definition or interpretation is fine.)
Rationality is a conceptual illusion that imposes a set of rules upon the otherwise random and unquantifiable sensory and intellectual thought. It's sole purpose is to isolated and suppress a pre-determined section of either unpleasant or socially unacceptable thinking. and as such, the exact definitionion of rationality is amorphous and subject to interpretation. as exemplified by the various differences, both accidental and perpetuated, that exist between separate cultures.

2) How would you define a “belief”?  (This does not imply that “belief” and “rational” must be distinct.)
(This also need not be a religious question, but that is of course applicable.)
Any adherence to thought, wether it be a principle, imaginative, or presumed knowledge, can be considered a belief. and like rational thought, any belief (to varying degrees) can be subject to re-assessment on the part of the believer.

3) Would you include morality under this definition?  (If not, can you shortly describe why?)
Morality, regardless of it's appearance as a human invention, can be explain as an outgrowth of natural instinct. most animals will not eat there own kind, and many have deep affection for their own young. Human morality is merely a more complicated and self aware (though still very fluid) set of these inter-relational and bodily instincts.

4) Do you believe that laws and legal practice are or should be a reflection of any particular system of morality?  Would this be your own?
In order for a society of any great size to survive and flourish. all members of that society must act and think succinctly and with regard for the society as a whole. and while the methods of enforcing this behavior are often harsh and many time lamentable, they are, in the grand scheme of things, largely irrelevent.

5) Do you believe a person can choose to act with complete disregard for their beliefs?
(This does not necessarily mean against their beliefs, but would naturally include the possibility.)
if a human were to intentionally act in a way that was not in line with any of his beliefs or principles, he would first need to change his way of thinking to allow this certain behevior. To illustarate: if a man believes it is wrong to cheat on his wife, but does so anyway, it is not because he has chosen to simply ignore hie belief, but it is because he has changed his belief set (which here means putting personal pleasure above marital vows) to allow him to do this act. so, in short, the mind (be it intellectual of instinctual) determines what the body does. and as such the question is a non-issue.

6) With those statements in mind, do you believe Judges can be impartial to all, or even any, cases?
Do you believe they should be?
No judge can be, or has ever been impartial to a legal case. nor could they be. for if they were truly impartial, it would be impossible for them to make any decision whatsoever.

[Splendiferous]

ooh. was I too late?
sorry.

[Aqizzar]

Nah, answer all you like.  I need data before Wednesday at the latest, but you can all go on discussing it as long as you like.  That was just the class result.

And why the hell are you all coloring your answers blue?  I'm using the Darkling theme, I can't fucking read that.