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[SirHoneyBadger]

Vikings drank wine, too, by the way--that's why Leif Ericsson were so excited to have discovered "Vinland", because there were wild grapes growing there.

I think the game would be better if both items were included, along with all kinds of *other* stuff that'll get ya drunk.

Maybe then, we could see Fortresses specializing in different kinds of drinks, and quality measurements would mean a lot more, since you'd have to really work to get "Urist's Masterpiece Meade, aged 10 and a day years.".

[Pilsu]

I don't really think an entire village should specialize in a type of beer to be able to make something good

That said, exceptional+ liquor should require decades if not centuries in a barrel and be importable for ludicrous fees. You could use it for all sorts of things. Nobles demanding it, providing it for a special occasions for the civilians, making it your primary export in the long term etc. There'd be little incentive to make 20 different brands of booze when you can order the types you don't make

[SirHoneyBadger]

I don't really think an entire village should specialize in a type of beer to be able to make something good

That said, exceptional+ liquor should require decades if not centuries in a barrel and be importable for ludicrous fees. You could use it for all sorts of things. Nobles demanding it, providing it for a special occasions for the civilians, making it your primary export in the long term etc. There'd be little incentive to make 20 different brands of booze when you can order the types you don't make

So you're disagreeing with me...and then you're agreeing again *scratches head*

These are the kinds of problems booze was invented to solve, in the first place 

I'm not saying that there should only the one kind of booze your Fortress ever makes, or even that it only make one really good kind, and a bunch of swill, I'm just saying that I don't think every single Fortress ever needs to be able to do exactly the same things, at exactly the highest levels, every single time.

Even all of France doesn't make every single kind of great wine ever produced. Hungary makes Tokaji, for instance. Porto (Port) comes from Portugal.

There could be a few kinds it does very well, and a selection that it does ok, and then several that it imports. Some of those importations could be further processed at your Fortress too, aging it (perhaps in different barrels), mixing it with herbs, or other types of booze, etc.

[Stove]

They should be fermentable... but the resulting brew should be weak and low quality: the most petty of grogs only to be drunk by the most desperate of haulers. Hell, you can technically ferment cats. Its just that nobody actually wants to drink the result.

If it's a fictional mushroom, it may well be fermentable into a decent drink. But whether mushroom-wine is kept or not, I don't mind either way.

I do however support the intriduction of beekeeping, the separation of brewery and distillery, and that much more of the complexities of brewing are introduced. Only surface crops should be brewable for instance, or we could have fermentable mushrooms which are brewable but undrinkable, forcing you to distill them.
Overall I would like to add lots of different challenges towards the different brews, hard liquors, etc.

The idea of apiaries has grown on me, though I don't know enough about beekeeping to really make any suggestions.
More complexity in DF's alcohol industry is definitely warranted. After all, the metal industry is quite complex, and alcohol seems to be just as important to Dwarven culture as metal.

I think the game would be better if both items were included, along with all kinds of *other* stuff that'll get ya drunk.

If apple trees are added, there could be cider... and cyser, which is mead made with cider instead of water. And there could be pyment, made from honey and whip vine, strawberry melomel made from honey and wild strawberries, braggot made from honey and longland grass, Dwarven braggot made from honey and cave wheat, and so forth.

[Tigershark13]

slightly off topic.... but isn't the Kolbolts 'speciality' stealing anyway...

[Quift]

slightly off topic.... but isn't the Kolbolts 'speciality' stealing anyway...

You could only consider them specialized if they ever managed to steal anything.

[ZeroGravitas]

There seems to be this attitude that everything Dwarven must be completely subterranean in origin, so that dwarves need not go outside to make it. Considering the association of mead with Dwarves in Norse mythology, I think it is fine to just have dwarves going outside to obtain the honey to make mead of their own.

Uh... Norse "dvergar" were often described as having black hair and being extremely pale, and sunlight was fatal to them. So if we're going to talk about Norse mythology dwarves, I don't think that supports them being beekeepers.

As for mead itself, mead was independently invented by literally dozens of cultures. The earliest mentions of mead come from ancient Vedic (ie, proto-Hindu) texts in India. There's no particular reason to take a Norse approach to mead.

[SirHoneyBadger]

The only real problem with taking the straight 'Dvergr' approach is that Norse Dvergr were portrayed (and even illustrated) as being the same size (height) as Norsemen. Sometimes, anyway.

[Stove]

There seems to be this attitude that everything Dwarven must be completely subterranean in origin, so that dwarves need not go outside to make it. Considering the association of mead with Dwarves in Norse mythology, I think it is fine to just have dwarves going outside to obtain the honey to make mead of their own.

Uh... Norse "dvergar" were often described as having black hair and being extremely pale, and sunlight was fatal to them. So if we're going to talk about Norse mythology dwarves, I don't think that supports them being beekeepers.

As for mead itself, mead was independently invented by literally dozens of cultures. The earliest mentions of mead come from ancient Vedic (ie, proto-Hindu) texts in India. There's no particular reason to take a Norse approach to mead.

That is just how dwarves were described in earlier Norse mythology, which over time evolved into the image of dwarves we have now. Our dwarves still have their origins in Norse mythology, and that is why taking a Norse approach to mead makes sense.

[Duke 2.0]

 I'm supporting mead purely for the entertainment in obtaining the raw ingredients. Mainly honey. And bees. And goblins. Now take out the honey and dwarves and you know exactly what I'm thinking.

[Pilsu]

And Satan was a dragon. Clearly the game needs to feature Christianity!

Oh please. Mead is mead, flimsy connections to irrelevant stories or not

[Granite26]

I think Norse is the way to go.

I also think that mead is a very small bit of what could be done if the capability for mead was added

[SirHoneyBadger]

Yeah, the game's clearly Norse inspired, and mead is a recognised element of that.