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Poll

How should libraries be set up

Single Giant library workroom. Takes a bit of set-up but once done is done.
- 90 (40%)
Specific Library sections. Books are in the library and the menu is managable.
- 111 (49.3%)
Generic library sections with free floating books. Messy, but flexible.
- 19 (8.4%)
Other: Describe (keep in mind the limits of modding)
- 5 (2.2%)

Total Members Voted: 224


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Author Topic: Civilization Forge 3.0  (Read 228199 times)

Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
« Reply #780 on: November 21, 2010, 12:28:24 am »

Please oh please tell me this is going to work with the new verison soon.

It will. Hopefully Monday.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
« Reply #781 on: November 23, 2010, 02:07:30 pm »

Ok, 2.31 is now uploaded! It just brings the mod up to date with 31.18. I'll work on an Adventurer pack that makes all civs use towns and see about the other requests next. But I wanted to get something out so people had something to work with.
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Civilization Forge Mod v2.80: Adding in new races, equipment, animals, plants, metals, etc. Now with Alchemy and Libraries! Variety to spice up DF! (For DF 0.34.10)
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vhappylurker

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #782 on: November 24, 2010, 05:39:25 am »

What a lovely thing to see first thing in the morning! Thanks, Mephansteras!

Axecleaver

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #783 on: November 24, 2010, 01:47:11 pm »

Foxes are standard DF animals, and not normally domesticated, but I guess I could change them.

Actually, the domestication of foxes is redundant.

There was a well published Russian study on the domestication of foxes as succeeding generations were raised for fur. Apparently, as the offspring became more docile their endocrine system changed (less adrenalin, for one). This changed the expression of epigenomes to the point that they started looking less like foxes and more and more like common dogs, complete with floppy ears. This was a problem for the fur trade since their fur no longer resembled that of a wild fox.

One other thing that is bugging me is how impossible it is to defend caravans. I only ever trade with the yearly dwarven elixer convoy, but the moment they come on the map they get ambushed because 1 or 2 groups from every hostile species spawn with them.
With all primitive races on you seem to get 2-3 years before chaos strikes. Due to large amount of ambushers combined with large amounts of caravans to be killed you quickly upset some->most of the friendly/neutral civs.
Also, you might find *all* of the primitive civs a bit excessive. But I suppose that's just more opportunity for fun.

No offense, but aren't these signs that things are out of balance? Not only does this make this significantly more difficult than vanilla DF, but after a short while you won't have any traders coming to trade. Considering how useful trade can be sometimes, esp. if you're lacking certain things, this could be a major handicap.

I rather like having huge hordes of enemies, find it a challenge, also am planning on pissing off any of those who trade so they attack too.

Depends on one's definition of fun. And I'm sure it is, for a while. But this situation defeats the whole purpose of traders, which is to have someone to trade good with.

I'd give alchemy a go, but the constant sieging doesn't allow for such luxuries...

May I propose that the amount of ambushers be reduced? Or, perhaps a separate file and/or instructions could be included on how to do this?

I realize people are different. Some players feel this mod is fine as it is, while I see some others mention how difficult it tends to make things. It's just too bad mods don't have a customization window or an init file that allows adjustment of difficulty and turning certain features on / off.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 02:06:09 am by bsperan »
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Urist McUristy

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #784 on: November 28, 2010, 06:05:21 pm »

What is the use of blazing incendium other than to burn the user? It doesn't affect enemies whenever I stab them and if I pick it up it scorches my hands, even when I am wearing glacium gauntlets. I'm I doing something wrong?
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #785 on: November 28, 2010, 06:30:36 pm »

Eventually, it will be used by high-temperature creatures.
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On Giant In the Playground and Something Awful I am Gnoman.
Man, ninja'd by a potentially inebriated Lord Shonus. I was gonna say to burn it.

Axecleaver

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
« Reply #786 on: November 29, 2010, 02:40:13 pm »

Snakemen are pretty frightening, copper weapons notwithstanding. They tend to have large territories. The downside to this is that the Sand Raiders tend to snatch a bunch of them. Then you get the Sand Raiders mostly composed of iron-clad snakemen. Scary.

Not as scary as the one map I let gen to 2000, though. It was mostly 2 Sand Raider empires made up of Frost Giants, a Frost Giant Civ, and one lonely Dwarven Civ who I guess was just ignored. Seriously, one of the Sand Raider empires was composed of over 4000 Frost Giants! It's no wonder they smashed everyone else.
Sand Raiders ARE scary! I knew Snatchers were a pain in the backside, but having those little buggers bring up Frost Giants and armoured Snakemen ... I sense much Dwarf Slaughter.

I'm thinking that Sand Raiders are way too strong with their snatching ability. If you remove this ability, then they should be much more reasonably balanced.
As for Snakemen and Frost giants, the biggest issue seems to be when they get snatched by others. Is there some way to increase the baby to adult maturation for these two races? Perhaps it should take at least 50 years for a Frost Giant to reach adulthood? And maybe 25 or more years for Snakemen? These are big, strong races, so it should take much longer for them to grow and their numbers should be small. Frost giants will wipe the floor with most races. Dwarves, in comparison, are very small and super weaklings. So dwarves should grow up fast and be able to breed like rabbits just to have a chance at survival. (As a general rule, smaller creatures tend to have shorter gestation cycles, more offspring, and faster maturation. For instance, the breeding onset in mice is about 50 days.)

BTW: Your solution for having snakemen so strong was to limit them to copper stuff. Alternatively, maybe snakemen should be buffed up slightly and be too proud to use armor (and/or weapons) and rely on their natural scale hide (or wrestling, biting & claws)? Or maybe their scaly, snake-like body makes wearing armor uncomfortable. (Or their claws makes using weapons somewhat uncomfortable?) That way, even if they are snatched, they can't be equipped with steel or better armor (/weapons).

I decided to give this mod a try (really like genesis, but thought more alchemy could be badass). However I'm having serious issues trying to get civilizations to survive in a medium region? Anyone have any advice besides just cut down the simulation time? With so much stuff it seems awfully hard to balance.
increase the number of civs to be seeded to 50, I always have them all with that.

Again, I don't mean to nag, but I see these things as signs this mod still has serious balance issues. I thought the whole point of adding lots of different races was to add variety? If a couple stronger races keep killing off and conquering the rest... isn't that a problem?
In my opinion, increasing the number of civs to seed is a workaround, not a fix. Anyway, doing that clutters up the history with an excess of violence and dead civs.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 02:42:39 am by bsperan »
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #787 on: November 30, 2010, 07:48:26 am »

It has nothing to do with weakness, actually, as the exact races that survive is mutable. The problem is that with so many races doing so many things, it's easy for any race to be overwhelmed in worldgen.
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On Giant In the Playground and Something Awful I am Gnoman.
Man, ninja'd by a potentially inebriated Lord Shonus. I was gonna say to burn it.

Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #788 on: November 30, 2010, 10:42:40 am »

Yeah, it's not that any given race is going to go extinct if you don't have enough, it's that some races will go extinct. I've seen pretty much every race end up dominant and every race end up gone. Except elves, who tend to just be on the 'gone' side of things. I think that'll probably be normal until Toady puts in some ways to really buff them that don't involve giving them metal. Silverwood helps, but isn't quiet abundant enough yet. I'll have to keep tweaking them.

As for the Snakemen, they already use pretty much no armor by themselves. It's when they're snatched that they become armor-wearing, iron-wielding doombringers. But there just isn't anything I can do about that since there is only one tag that regulates whether a creature can use items and if I take that away...they're really just glorified animals.

In any case, it's MUCH less of a problem now. Snatched creatures make up a small percentage of the overall population in the newer versions of DF so the they don't make as much of an impact. It was worse when the snatching civ tended to get replaced by whatever races it was snatching.
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Civilization Forge Mod v2.80: Adding in new races, equipment, animals, plants, metals, etc. Now with Alchemy and Libraries! Variety to spice up DF! (For DF 0.34.10)
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Crossroads Inc.

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #789 on: November 30, 2010, 01:07:13 pm »

Hey Meph, any update On the simplified "primitive civ's" mod?
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Ask not what the Dwarfs can do for you...
But ask.... why are they drunk all the time?

Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #790 on: November 30, 2010, 01:16:11 pm »

I'm doing some work on that today, actually.

I think it'll end up being a stand-alone Primitive Civs pack, with just the various civs and their attendant items. That'll make it easy for them to get used as a stand-alone mod or with other mods.
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Civilization Forge Mod v2.80: Adding in new races, equipment, animals, plants, metals, etc. Now with Alchemy and Libraries! Variety to spice up DF! (For DF 0.34.10)
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"Let us maintain our chill composure." - Toady One

Crossroads Inc.

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #791 on: November 30, 2010, 03:04:31 pm »

Thanks!

Really thats all I ever wanted, some extra civs mostly so I have more people to trade with and to up the variety of people who may attack me :)
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Ask not what the Dwarfs can do for you...
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vrga

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #792 on: December 02, 2010, 12:59:29 pm »

i'm loving this mod, the sheer number of races running around trying to kill my fort and then realising "Hey, we dont like those sand raiders either, so lets go whack them first" is awesome :D



mbwahahahahahahahahhahah


in the three years i've been running this fort ingame, already 12 or so caravans have died outside my fort.



and all i can say is "FREE LOOT!" XD
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Otherwise known as the Release Urist Now Apocalyptic Weapon of Arse Yerking, or the R.U.N.A.W.A.Y. system.

vhappylurker

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #793 on: December 02, 2010, 06:21:01 pm »

Had a frogmen civ attacking the lizardmen & snakemen that came to trade. It was...odd.

Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
« Reply #794 on: December 02, 2010, 06:22:25 pm »

Are they at war?
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Civilization Forge Mod v2.80: Adding in new races, equipment, animals, plants, metals, etc. Now with Alchemy and Libraries! Variety to spice up DF! (For DF 0.34.10)
Come play Mafia with us!
"Let us maintain our chill composure." - Toady One
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