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How should libraries be set up

Single Giant library workroom. Takes a bit of set-up but once done is done.
- 90 (40%)
Specific Library sections. Books are in the library and the menu is managable.
- 111 (49.3%)
Generic library sections with free floating books. Messy, but flexible.
- 19 (8.4%)
Other: Describe (keep in mind the limits of modding)
- 5 (2.2%)

Total Members Voted: 224


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Author Topic: Civilization Forge 3.0  (Read 227833 times)

thistleknot

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1305 on: April 24, 2013, 06:38:43 pm »

I don't know if this is an issue with your version, but as pointed out here

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100707.msg4201510#msg4201510

coif's can be made out of non armor type clothing without the [armor level:x] token.  (at least in my mod, and I didn't have items_hard specified_

Dakkan

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1306 on: April 26, 2013, 11:22:55 am »

Well I've tested a few more things. I've tried training Siege operator, and then surgery, since you said that was thoroughly tested. None of these caused experience to go up in the subject. I also tried building the individual medical library and training there.

I feel like I need to also include that this was a fresh install of DF with Civ Forge installed. Nuffin' fancy done at all.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1307 on: April 26, 2013, 11:51:52 am »

Interesting. I'll have to check it out. I know it was working fine before...


I've seen the issue of coif's before. Haven't found a way to fix it, so I think it's probably an odd DF bug for world-gen created items.
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thistleknot

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1308 on: April 26, 2013, 12:10:37 pm »

the coif's were fixed by giving them an armorlevel:2

Northstar1989

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Growth Durations over 1008
« Reply #1309 on: August 17, 2013, 03:02:11 am »

So, I've been playing this mod a good bit to add a little variety to my DF games...  After a tundra fortress that failed miserably due to Sand Raider ambusher spam (I was getting as many as 80-100 Sand Raiders visible on my map at a time!  I couldn't leave the fort, and eventually some of their bowmen caught a half-dozen of my dwarves in a fortress courtyard open from above with their bows- setting off a tantrum spiral...), I started another fortress on a Tundra island further to the south of the map (a "Freezing" biome through and through- but no Sand Raiders!  they shouldn't be able to survive in Tundras anyways...)  But I was having trouble farming the Tundra crops- Rime/Lingon/Crowberries.


Rime Berries, Crowberries, and Lingon Berries were all present on my map as natural "shrubs"- so I collected a number of the plants, and their seeds after brewing/eating raw the plants...

The first problem I noticed was that the seeds didn't appear in the Kitchen Menu (through Z), so I couldn't cook them if I wanted.  No big deal, I was going to try to farm them anyways...

However when I started some farming plots, channeled a Z-level down from the surface in some covered courtyards, I ran into some serious issues farming the plants.  They would select just fine to plant, and my dwarves would even go and plant the seeds (I confirmed through 'T' that the seeds were actually planted) but the crops wouldn't seem to grow!  So I started browsing the raws a bit... (raws for the CF plants can be found in "plant_cf" in the raws/objects folder)


Turns out that a major error was made in coding these plants (if they were meant to be farmable- if not they probably shouldn't have dropped uncookable seeds when eaten/brewed...)  Their growth duration was set to 1200!  That might not seem like a big deal- but a full season in Dwarf Fortress, from start to finish, is exactly 1008 growth duration 'units'  (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Time#Plant_growth). And these plants only grow for one season each (Spring for Crowberries, Summer for Lingon Berries, and Autumn for Rime Berries)!

That means that the plants can never be farmed on Farm Plots!  Instead of growing to maturity and being harvested at the end of each growth period, they get planted, at best, at the very beginning of the season, and then grow to close to full maturity before the season changes and they completely disappear- leaving no seeds or crops behind!  This obviously is a balance issue, but it's not the only one- several other crops also had growth durations longer than a season.  Most of the normal berries (blue/black/raspberries) also had growth durations of 1200 and only grew in one season, and sugar canes had a growth duration of 2000 and only grow in the Spring!  Other crops with impossible [growdur]'s included Cinnamon and Black Pepper.


Obviously, this makes farming most, if not all, of the new above ground plants impossible- as most of them have growth durations longer than the full season they grow in!  Obviously, these values need to be tweaked so it's at least possible to grow them to maturity.  A good rule of thumb would probably be no growth durations longer than about 800- to give Dwarves enough time to plant a field at beginning of the season.  Most 'vanilla' crops only have [Growdur] of between 300 and 600.  So 1200 is a really long [GrowDur], and 2000 is frankly, insane.  Without the ability to grow in multiple seasons and some way of cross-seasonal farming (read: built-in modding in the CivForge mod to allow growth across seasons- so it's not necessary to install separate, additional mods just to get CF farming to work properly); or [Growdur] values a good bit under 1008, these crops will NEVER be farmable.  So, either they should be tweaked; or they shouldn't drop seeds- or at least the seeds should be cookable, and the Mod description should warn that these crops are un-farmable...
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1310 on: August 17, 2013, 03:05:05 pm »

Hmm...I think there was a change with plants at some point. Those growth durations were supposed to make the plants grow for an extended period of time, and I know that it worked properly at one point.

Looks like they'll have to be updated.
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Meph

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1311 on: August 17, 2013, 11:20:15 pm »

I actually use 4 active seasons and 4000 growdur for all underground crops (all plants can be planted and grow all year, but take one year), and 3 active seasons and 1000 growdur for all aboveground crops (all plants can be planted spring/summer, and harvested summer/autumn. Anything planted in autumn dies before it can be harvested, and nothing can be planted in winter.)

People think that the 4000 growdur is a bit much, but the aboveground system seems to be taken well.
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Northstar1989

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1312 on: August 18, 2013, 05:38:00 am »

I actually use 4 active seasons and 4000 growdur for all underground crops (all plants can be planted and grow all year, but take one year), and 3 active seasons and 1000 growdur for all aboveground crops (all plants can be planted spring/summer, and harvested summer/autumn. Anything planted in autumn dies before it can be harvested, and nothing can be planted in winter.)

People think that the 4000 growdur is a bit much, but the aboveground system seems to be taken well.

I'm getting these [Growdur] values directly from the raws- so I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.  Most of the new aboveground crops have values of 1200 or 2000- but many grow for one season only.  I tried farming the Crowberries/Lingon Berries/Rime Berries for several game years before giving up- and as stated, the planted seeds simply disappeared at the end of each season.  That might have been because I had the subsequent crop planted in the next season for the case of the Crowberries and Lingon Berries- but since nothing grows in the Winter in Tundra Biomes, I had nothing planted for Winter and the planted Rime Berry Seeds (only plantable in Autumn) still disappeared when the first day of Winter rolled around...


EDIT:  Meph, I just realized you're referring to the Masterwork Modpack.  I'm not running that.  I found it interesting, and almost installed it instead of just Civ Forge alone- but then I looked at the changelogs and as far as I could figure out from them, you removed a number of Civ Forge civilizations- such as the High Elves (personally, my favorite Civ Forge race- I'm a huge Tolkien fan, and they're modeled after Tolkien's elves.  Though, a note to Mephansteras- they should probably have different racial Personality averages than standard elves- higher patience, discipline, and altruism for a start.  If they're truly meant to represent more Tolkien-like elves, they should also have a human or larger body size, rather than one equal to Dwarves, and tend towards greater height rather than girth.  As it stands, they're just renamed standard/primitive elves with some new materials they can work and different ethics- which doesn't capture any of the critical personality or physical differences.)

Anyways, I like the idea of many of the Masterwork features- especially the simplification of leather (though I do think there *should* be a number of different types, with different thicknesses/properties- certainly not the obscene practice of every species having its own leather, which becomes nearly unmanageable very quickly...)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 05:54:48 am by Northstar1989 »
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Northstar1989

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1313 on: August 18, 2013, 06:11:40 am »

Replies broken to two posts due to length (and different subjects)

Hmm...I think there was a change with plants at some point. Those growth durations were supposed to make the plants grow for an extended period of time, and I know that it worked properly at one point.

Looks like they'll have to be updated.


The problem might lie in a change to how season changes were handled.  I think Dwarf Fortress must now check each season if the currently planted seeds are able to grow in the next season, and clear them if they aren't...  It would appear that the underground crops grow fine across seasons, as they *can* grow in all four seasons; but the surface crops- at least the Tundra ones I'm talking about- are limited to just one season, and so clear automatically at the end of it.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the way Meph was saying Masterwork handles Growth Durations longer than one season (1008 [Growdur] 'units') is by having the crops plantable for all seasons but Winter.  You just have to know (or learn by trial-and-error) that you shouldn't actually activate planting for Autumn- because it will just waste the seeds.

So, if you want to leave Rime Berries' [Growdur] at 1200, for instance, then you need to make them a [Autumn]/[Winter] crop rather than just an [Autumn] crop.  That way, if a player plants them in Autumn they'll have enough time to grow.  If he/she plants them in Winter, on the other hand...  he/she will just end up wasting some very rare/valuable seeds.

I don't know how you would make the seeds register with the Kitchen menu, but while you're updating/fixing the crops with [Growdur] values longer than their maximum potential growth period, you might also want to see if you can't get them to register with the Kitchen menu so they can be cooked and their quantities assessed in the same screen as other foodstuffs like Meat, Milk, and Cheese. (personally, I find assessing the ratios between different ingredient types is *VERY* important- it gives me an idea of, say, how long my kitchens can make Lavish Meals on /repeat before they run out of solid ingredients and have nothing but Milk and Syrup left...)
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1314 on: August 18, 2013, 10:40:57 am »

Yeah, I think you're correct on the change. I'll have to decide how I want those crops to be handled. And, yes, the seeds should be cookable, so I'll make sure that goes in as well.

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Meph

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1315 on: August 19, 2013, 01:58:27 pm »

@Northstar1989 & Mephansteras: I was just offering the information about my "solution" for the growdurations. I didnt mean that it should be taken or is in CivForge, it was just that Mephansteras said: "I probably should rebalance this", so I wanted to show a possible balancing idea.

About removing civs: MasterworkDF has nothing to do with CivForge, I did not add or remove anything. ;)
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1316 on: August 19, 2013, 02:02:40 pm »

I knew what you meant, Meph. I appreciate the information. :)
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L0master

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1317 on: August 20, 2013, 12:50:57 am »

Could someone please direct me to the latest mayday-compatible CivForge release? The opening post seems to be outdated just as dffd.wimbli seems as well. CivForge was my my mod of choice when i last played DF more than a year ago. A changelog would also be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1318 on: August 20, 2013, 08:56:49 am »

The Change List in the bottom of the OP is up to date.

Not sure about a mayday-compatible release. I don't really manage any tileset versions.
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L0master

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
« Reply #1319 on: August 20, 2013, 11:14:17 am »

The Change List in the bottom of the OP is up to date.

Not sure about a mayday-compatible release. I don't really manage any tileset versions.
So no big changes since summer 2012 then? Great, then i'll be playing pretty much the same DF i enjoyed a year ago.
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