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[Neonivek]

But peace can't work here, there are too many hardliners. Isreali agression should be harsh now, to crush the millitants, then it will (might really) slacken off.

True... the only peace Israel may get is a peace they carve out with a ballistic knife.

Israel exists to be a Jewish state.  Its laws exist to ensure that Jews will always remain in power within Israel.  All actions that Israel takes must benefit Judaism, by their own laws

Kinda sad... but that is WW2 over-reaction for you.

[Strife26]

I have no problem with the jews getting their own country. As long as it is sort of a theocracy, the holy land should stay safeish.

[Neonivek]

I have no problem with the jews getting their own country. As long as it is sort of a theocracy, the holy land should stay safeish.

While I kinda believe in a theocracy I recognise that religion is often treated as a maliable substance to be hammered to your will.

I don't blame religion mind you... they have a term for it... "You don't blame the pot for the bad water" or something like that. It is rather ignorant to blame a Religion for your problems.

[Strife26]

My thought for the benifit of the Holy Land of all three Abramaic religons (which takes up a LOT of the worlds populations) goes with the idea that 'Free thinkers suck.'  The Free Thinkers are a group, at least here in Fargo, who campaign to remove any vestige of Religion from anywhere city owned. If a government is expressly for religion, I believe that religiuos symbols of any kind (even differing ones) ge some degree of protection.

[LegoLord]

But peace can't work here, there are too many hardliners. Isreali agression should be harsh now, to crush the millitants, then it will (might really) slacken off.

In general that strategy does not work.

[Strife26]

What else is there?

[inaluct]

Strife, put down the joint. A theocracy in the most religiously heated place on the planet has something close to a zero percent chance of peaceful existence, since one religion will need to be chosen over another.

Also, killing militant Islamists just makes them martyrs and gets people angry, hence even more militants.

Basically, Israel should just leave. Seriously.

[Strife26]

But the zionists won't. Ever.

[inaluct]

So we shouldn't be helping them. At all. We should just say "Screw you guys, we've sunk enough money. Do this yourselves."

And then on our way out, we turn around and say "And we'll fucking bomb you if you try and pull some genocide shit."

[Strife26]

Wait, don't imply that I do drugs.

Moving on, they have the bomb as well.

Second, I think that we have a responsibilty to support democratic countries (which Isreal is) over Arab authoritarian theocracies.

Mind you, agressive war isn't supposed to be allowed (ever sense the old Kellog-Breand (sp?) Pact), but Iraq anyone?

[inaluct]

The Kellogg-Briand Pact really wasn't effective at all.

[Il Palazzo]

Can you really blame the Germans for what Hitler did?  No.  The people don't have anything to do with the actions of their government.  They can only control who the government is.  And people, where ever you go, make mistakes.

Why not? That's the basis of democracy, people elect other people to represent them. And since the country in question was nationalist, the people that NSDAP represented were the Germans.
Same with Israel, it's a country of Jews, so it's government actions must be representative of an average Jew's ideas.
Nobody should blame everything on the government, people should take some responsibility(it comes bundled with the voting rights). Unless you're living in non-democratic state, of course.

A theocracy in the most religiously heated place on the planet has something close to a zero percent chance of peaceful existence, since one religion will need to be chosen over another.

Second, I think that we have a responsibilty to support democratic countries (which Isreal is) over Arab authoritarian theocracies.

I wonder, how is it ok to choose one form of government over another, but it's wrong with the religion?

[inaluct]

A theocracy in the most religiously heated place on the planet has something close to a zero percent chance of peaceful existence, since one religion will need to be chosen over another.

Second, I think that we have a responsibilty to support democratic countries (which Isreal is) over Arab authoritarian theocracies.

I wonder, how is it ok to choose one form of government over another, but it's wrong with the religion?

It isn't okay to have a theocracy, but I was pointing out why; it would create even more conflict.

[LegoLord]

Can you really blame the Germans for what Hitler did?  No.  The people don't have anything to do with the actions of their government.  They can only control who the government is.  And people, where ever you go, make mistakes.

Why not? That's the basis of democracy, people elect other people to represent them. And since the country in question was nationalist, the people that NSDAP represented were the Germans.
Same with Israel, it's a country of Jews, so it's government actions must be representative of an average Jew's ideas.
Nobody should blame everything on the government, people should take some responsibility(it comes bundled with the voting rights). Unless you're living in non-democratic state, of course.

No, y'see, people were desperate and desperation makes them stupid, cause they're only human, and they turn to whoever promises better times.  A lot of Germans did not expect the Holocaust to actually happen.
They didn't know Hitler.  They couldn't have predicted what he would do.  Hence why the voters cannot be blamed (in most cases).

[Il Palazzo]

Ah, yes. 'Cause all people are kind at heart and wouldn't do bad things.
Hitler's party actively blamed minorities(incl. Jews) for their tough situation, and their electorate obviously didn't mind.
Which is so typical of nationalist countries. Look  ar the birth of modern Turkey, on the remains on Ottoman Empire, and how happily they indulged in genocides(of Greeks, of Armenians).