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[Yanlin]

Of course the risk would logically be reduced. But the others that have nukes are not on an insane genocidal quest. (North Korea excluded. But I don't think they are that crazy.)

Yeah . . . those must not be good sociologists.  And America is not the only nation that has nukes.  Russia, France, England(?), etc.

A lot of nations have nukes. But only North Korea and Iran are batshit insane.

[Jude]

I really don't buy the idea that Iran is run by frothing-at-the-mouth maniacs. You don't get to stay in charge of a country for decades by being completely bonkers; it just sounds good for propaganda purposes in the West.

Ahmedinejad sure says some dumb stuff, but for one thing, most of it is posturing, and the other thing is that he's not the one in charge.

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

I really don't buy the idea that Iran is run by frothing-at-the-mouth maniacs. You don't get to stay in charge of a country for decades by being completely bonkers; it just sounds good for propaganda purposes in the West.

Ahmedinejad sure says some dumb stuff, but for one thing, most of it is posturing, and the other thing is that he's not the one in charge.

At least Ahmadinejad RUNS the country.
I would vote for people like him (if there are any in my 'country')

[Il Palazzo]

Yeah . . . those must not be good sociologists.  And America is not the only nation that has nukes.  Russia, France, England(?), etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

This thread has become my personal hero, after it survived the "going down in flames and being locked" scenario.

[Yanlin]

I really don't buy the idea that Iran is run by frothing-at-the-mouth maniacs. You don't get to stay in charge of a country for decades by being completely bonkers; it just sounds good for propaganda purposes in the West.

Ahmedinejad sure says some dumb stuff, but for one thing, most of it is posturing, and the other thing is that he's not the one in charge.

Charles the IX. George the III. Need more examples?

Ahmedinejad is insane. Regardless of how you look at it. No sane man would do everything in his power to eradicate all those who disagree with his opinions.

[chaoticag]

Didn't he attend a gathering that stated that the holocost didn't happen?

[Jude]

Didn't he attend a gathering that stated that the holocost didn't happen?

Like I said...he says some dumb stuff. I think a lot of it is posturing. Of course, among the uneducated in the Muslim world, the idea that the holocaust didn't happen (the corollary being, Jews made it up to justify creating Israel) is pretty widespread. Given that most uneducated Arabs have no contact with Jews besides as settlers, it fits in with their image of Jews. Unfortunate, but true.

Now, as to whether or not Ahmedinejad is actually nuts - maybe, maybe not. But like I said, he's not the one with the authority; Iran is run by a fundamentalist coalition, not just one man. And there's plenty of talk about how they're all apocalyptic visionaries who'd be plenty willing to start a nuclear war to bring Judgment day, but that's propaganda. They're world leaders with their own self-interest at heart just like any other.

Also, up until January, the most dangerous military in the world was run by a coalition fundamentalist wackos and megalomaniacs; compared to that, Iran doesn't scare me.

[Yanlin]

That last line was hinting that the Bush administration was more insane than Iran...

Anyway, like I said. The entire government there is nuts. It's basically a dictatorship. Not a coalition.

Obligatory joke:

[Jude]

That last line was hinting that the Bush administration was more insane than Iran...

Probably equally insane. But much, much, MUCH more dangerous.

Anyway, like I said. The entire government there is nuts. It's basically a dictatorship. Not a coalition.

Well, a coalition of dictators. Also, as I said, I'm not buying that the government is all nutjobs. That's just propaganda. Obama is on the right track trying to open dialogue; another clear pattern is that when an "enemy" group is recognized and given legitimacy, their tendency to use violence and other extreme means drops (violence appears when all other channels are exhausted or seen as useless.

Not to dredge up a dead horse, but both sides in the Israel-Palestine conflict should really take that to heart. The PA already has...

[LegoLord]

I really don't buy the idea that Iran is run by frothing-at-the-mouth maniacs. You don't get to stay in charge of a country for decades by being completely bonkers; it just sounds good for propaganda purposes in the West.

Ahmedinejad sure says some dumb stuff, but for one thing, most of it is posturing, and the other thing is that he's not the one in charge.

Charles the IX. George the III. Need more examples?

Ahmedinejad is insane. Regardless of how you look at it. No sane man would do everything in his power to eradicate all those who disagree with his opinions.

Stalin, Hitler, Louis XVI, whoever ruled England when the US was still in colony form, etc . . .

Stalin's probably the best example of an insane ruler staying in power you'll find.  Ever.

[Jude]

King George III as an example of insane ruler? Wtf?

Of course, monarchy does produce a disproportionate amount of wackos after a while due to inbreeding.

[Yanlin]

Hey, you said lunatics that stayed in power for over a decade. You didn't say they had to be outbred.

Not to mention Ahmedinijad is probably just as inbred. I doubt two normal parents can produce such a lunatic.

Also, I disagree that the Bush administration was more insane than Ahmedinijad. After all, Bush was just stupid. Not insane.

[Jude]

Please, please give me an example of how Ahmedinejad is so crazy, that can't be explained as posturing aimed at either the west or the Muslim world.

Bush's intelligence, we could debate. But his administration was run by neoconservatives, an ideology which basically says that in order to stop the "moral decay" of society (i.e., people having the ability to make their own choices in life and "tradition" falling apart and so on) people need to be united behind various myths, which need not be true - the most successful of these that the neocons have harnessed is that of the American religious right, where America is a magic country ordained by God to go and fight "evil" throughout the world. The great successes of the neocons were the invention of a moral crusade against Bill Clinton (which completely failed until they stumbled upon an intern he actually had boned) and - you guessed it - the election of George W. Bush and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Call it megalomania, or call it crazy or what ever you want, but I'm far more scared of a group of people like that in charge of the world's strongest military, than of a bunch of Muslim clerics in charge of Iran. Only one of the two has the power to actually plunge entire countries into utter destruction and warfare; the other only has the power to goad the bigger one.

[Bromor Neckbeard]

Please, please give me an example of how Ahmedinejad is so crazy, that can't be explained as posturing aimed at either the west or the Muslim world

Well, I believe in taking things at face value and assuming that when somebody says something, they mean it.  Therefore when Ahmedinejad says something like "We will wipe Israel off the map" or "there are no homosexuals in my country", he's just as crazy as Bush saying, "God told me to invade Iraq".  You could explain any statements I could possibly give you as "posturing", but I don't choose to look at things that way.

[Jude]

Please, please give me an example of how Ahmedinejad is so crazy, that can't be explained as posturing aimed at either the west or the Muslim world

Well, I believe in taking things at face value and assuming that when somebody says something, they mean it.  Therefore when Ahmedinejad says something like "We will wipe Israel off the map" or "there are no homosexuals in my country", he's just as crazy as Bush saying, "God told me to invade Iraq".  You could explain any statements I could possibly give you as "posturing", but I don't choose to look at things that way.

Bunch of things...Bush never said God told him to invade Iraq...just implied it. Although you could call that posturing too - he got elected by the religious right and pandered to them a lot.

Now, about "wiping Israel off the map" (a quote that's as misused and misquoted as Kruschschshchchev's "we will bury you") and there being no gays - that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about by posturing. Israel is not popular in the Muslim world, for a number of reasons. As a leader Ahmedinejad was expressing that/pandering to the crowds. As for there being no homos? Well, there certainly aren't any who are open about it. A Muslim religious fanatic probably sees gays the same way a Christian fanatic does, as a sign of sin and corruption, and would pride himself on there not being any in his country.

But neither of those things (or for that matter, Bush saying God talks to him) really qualify as crazy when you look at who the audience is.