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[Org]

It would be cool. You start off with more money, maybe to but extra supplies for the trip there, and guards. You might need to cut short the amount of cat meat you were going to buy, so that your group has Urist McMarksdwarf to guard you from those zombie bats.

[TheMirth]

Seems like a different game than Fortress mode and the resource management would be more advanced than Adventure mode. I think a Caravan Mode would be awesome enough, you could create a caravan group and run around trading and getting more resources for you initial setup. Then from the dwarf fortress embark menu you could select, play now with the typical setup, choose carefully to spend points as you wish or choose from the groups of caravans you've created and whatever resources they've built up.

[Neonivek]

The issue with a Carivan mode isn't that Toady is against it...

It is that Toady has a extreme Phobia of trying to code in any sort of advanced economy which would be one of the things needed for a full blown Carrivan mode

plus some other stuff about Bandits and stuff. (a Carrivan mode may be part of Adventure mode)

[Footkerchief]

It is that Toady has a extreme Phobia of trying to code in any sort of advanced economy which would be one of the things needed for a full blown Carrivan mode

Huh?  Caravan Arc preliminaries are on dev_next already, and the Caravan Arc is all about an advanced economy.

Caravan Arc Preliminaries

I: Store resource counts at sites, controlled by map properties and world gen professions, and in armies (Core38)
II.A.1: Realization of guarded tribute caravans from existing world gen tribute relationships (Core81)
II.B.1: Ability for civs to enter into trade during world gen (part of Core3)
II.B.2: Realization of trade caravans from existing world gen trade relationships as traveling groups on the world map (part of Core3)
II.B.3: Control inventory of shops in adv mode based on trade and available site resources (part of Core42)
III.A.1: Replacement of generated caravans in dwarf mode with actual caravans (part of Core3)
III.A.2: More interesting trade agreements and diplomacy in dwarf mode based on actual world situation (Core62)
III.B.1: Addition of bandit groups which harass caravans (part of Core71)
III.B.2: Ability to be a caravan guard in adventure mode (part of Core65)

[Neonivek]

Yet there is no addition quoted more for Toady having a fear for then an actual Economy.

[Footkerchief]

Yet there is no addition quoted more for Toady having a fear for then an actual Economy.

Did he say this at some point or what?  I searched for his posts about the DF economy and everything was just him saying "it's a placeholder."

[Neonivek]

He doesn't say that much... Usually along the lines of "Once I am brave enough Ill try to tackle this"

Though I should have said "Real Economy" rather then Advanced Economy...

Mostly he is afraid he will have people constantly starving to death and cities with way too much goods then they should have.

[DennyTom]

Great idea. It would be fun. And I hate when my dwarves embark in some completely dumb place.

Not to mention, you'd need spare wagons to carry extra weight, and the animals to haul them.

Is there a plan to modify number of wagons after embark? Do not you think that it is weird that you get one wagon (or none if you are "lucky" enough) no matter how many thinks you bring?

[Chthonic]

I think the problem with simulating an economy (or a real ecology, for that matter) is that once the simulation starts, you're going to have to hope it stays within game-viable (playable) parameters.  It's fully possible that a randomly generated economy crashes and burns within a few years, depending on what civs have what resources, the price of goods, and how wars work out . . . which makes things rough on fortresses depending on trade.  A crashed economy might wipe out world trade almost altogether, taking civilizations with it.

[The-Moon]

Well what i would like to see....

You can play in adventure mode as normal, being able to go anywheres, mine, hunt, fish, build ect.

But if you want to start up a settlement as a Adventure, if you have enough money, you could just buy a wagon or two, supplys, and hire / recruit soliders and workers.

Hiring soliders will cost money, and the workers would of course want you to provide them with food and drink for the journey.

That would be the first option, going out on your own after you make enough money on your own.

Your second option being going to the king or someone in high power in your home town, and asking if you can start up a settlement.

You will of course have to do quests and stuff and prove you competent before the king / nobles allow you to start up a car van to make a new settlement.

This would be the other way, which the king / nobles will pay for the wagons, gives you money supplies and as well as the soldiers and workers you would need.

Then you would embark, but this way would mean once your settlement gets running, you will not own the settlement, the mountain home nobles / king would own it. Your just the "General Manager".

The other way of course, paying for the wagons / recruits and such your self would mean you owned the settlement. Meaning no kings would come or nobles, you would be able to elect you own nobles and such.

Well there's a lot more ideas i have, but that's pretty much the basic outline of what i would like to see happen.

[Willfor]

I think the problem with simulating an economy (or a real ecology, for that matter) is that once the simulation starts, you're going to have to hope it stays within game-viable (playable) parameters.  It's fully possible that a randomly generated economy crashes and burns within a few years, depending on what civs have what resources, the price of goods, and how wars work out . . . which makes things rough on fortresses depending on trade.  A crashed economy might wipe out world trade almost altogether, taking civilizations with it.

This sounds familiar somehow. I guess there will have to be ways for them to restart the economy in the game so after a large crash, things start to climb up again. Until they crash again.

This would simulate the rise and fall, and restructuring of empires rather well. Plus, add in the fact that it would add some challenge (how WILL you manage your fort through tough economic times?) to the game which is what people always seem to be clamoring for.

[Mephansteras]

Well, the game could always have some upper and lower boundries for the economies to prevent that. Since the player doesn't see EVERYTHING that goes on in the world, it'd be easy enough for the game to decide that THIS town that provides all the food for an area isn't going to have a drought after all, since that would push things too low.

[Granite26]

unless the player can actually trace everything, it may be easier to add consumables at a fixed maximum price.  This should be done behind the scenes.  (I.E. everything the player can buy has actually been produced, but the other side of the world is being fed on 'imported' food.)

[Dwarf Fanatic]

Did anyone ever play caravaneer?

Even if you never played it or fear it might get into your precious DF or not so precious RL time, play a little and enjoy its economy system with caravans.

DF is just 10000google times more complex...

[forsaken1111]

seeing as how it's been mentioned in the future of the fortress thread...

Sorry I didn't read through the 48 page thread before tossing my idea out. I wanted to get it down before I forgot.

My thoughts are similar to most people here. I'd love it to be integrated with adventure mode, where you can pay money to start up an expedition or do enough quests that you earn a town charter and a royal expedition. I would also like it to be optional for the people who do not wish to participate. I'm thinking that when you pick an embark point, you'll get three options. Start playing, prepare for the journey carefully, or take control of the expedition. If you take control, it will present you with a few preset paths based on the geography of the world or allow you to make your own path via dropping waypoints. You'd then choose your supplies, with a bonus amount of 'money' for supplies to be consumed along the way. It could be handled as simple as running through the days with random encounters and events based on a random number generator/roll of the dice or it could be as complex as seeing your wagon cross the countryside, playing it all out.

Did anyone ever play caravaneer?

Even if you never played it or fear it might get into your precious DF or not so precious RL time, play a little and enjoy its economy system with caravans.

DF is just 10000google times more complex...

I hate you. Now I'm addicted.