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[Jonathan S. Fox]

One option to throw out there on the issue of Heart and Wisdom in general would be to merge the two stats to a single one, perhaps even just Heart, which represents (Heart - Wisdom). This number would increase with Juice (good), and decrease with "Wisdom damage" (bad). I'm not sure how you'd handle Conservatives under this system, however, as a direct implementation would result in them having negative stats, which is confusing and odd.

[Rezan]

It would require having low heart be beneficial for certain skills, but I agree with the concept. It's not that Conservatives are "wise", they're just heartless (as a stereotype, anyhow). Maybe Heart could be in general much higher for Liberals, and just a lot lower for non-Liberals?

Would require quite a few changes to the skill-system, but it feels more right imho.

[mainiac]

If liberals stop hating wisdom, the LCS just lost one of it's funnies twists, IMHO.

[Neonivek]

Well the Liberal Crime squad would probably want low Wisdom because sane people make bad political terrorists

[Servant Corps]

The current system is fine, I like the permenant damage that occurs when you get in a debate attack.

[Rezan]

I guess what some people like is what other people dislike... I'm not so fond of stats being permanently affected by a debate attack if you can't change it back through similar techniques. The whole "wisdom" thing just doesn't add up for me. For me there is no correlation between "the right" and wisdom, nor "the left" and wisdom.

I do however agree that wisdom might be an indicator of what your follower can and cannot do for you. Well, will or will not. It's kind of crazy that I can just order any person under my control to do anything; regardless of how maddening it is. I mean. I frequently order people to get naked, bring five molotov cocktails with them, and bomb the police station; and you'd need to be pretty damned naive to think you're getting out of there alive.

[Yanlin]

Maybe the wisdom=bad idea could be reinforced by a wisdom lowering mechanic.  So, wisdom gain becomes more common, but now you have a way to lower it again.  But to lower it you have to do something that's downright stupid.  I'm unsure what that downright stupid thing is.  Any ideas?

Will it blend? That is the question. On today's show, bleeding heart liberal terrorists.

[mainiac]

Well, it sure ain't wise...

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Another alternative, based on what Neonivek and Rezan were saying, would be to leave Wisdom in, but disassociate it from Conservatism. It's still bad, and mechanically is still very similar, because it's incompatible with being a radical terrorist, but it's not pollution from Conservative thought. Conservatism is merely the lack of Heart. Wisdom is more like the pragmatism that prevents people from turning into radicals.

The CCS thus would be low heart, low wisdom, while your Liberal Judges would have high heart, high wisdom. Wisdom would then be a barrier to recruitment, and possibly some of the more powerful or dangerous actions could have a minimum Heart - Wisdom requirement. It could be called Commitment or something, with some text for what their current Commitment is and how it was calculated. Under this system, it wouldn't quite be "Liberals hate Wisdom", just that your insane ones do.

[EuchreJack]

I really like that idea!

But, wouldn't you need a third stat for the CCS, and Arch-Conservatives?

Like, "Tradition" or "Greed", depending on what kind of new ironic joke you're going to use to replace the current "Wisdom and Heart" joke.

For more fun, you could just rename "Wisdom" into "Sanity".

[Neonivek]

Woo! someone actually liked my idea! I feel happy

As a suggestion: High-heart (and possibly wisdom) could help with the more humanitarian actions like community service.

[E. Albright]

I'm personally fond of the current Wisdom-Heart Right-Left system. I'd not be displeased to see a zeal/determination/complacency/self-preservation stat introduced, but if we consider Wisdom to be "common sense" I'd argue that right-wing narratives strongly associate Liberalism with a lack of Wisdom, particularly wasting one's time with Liberal activism. Maybe it's the (rural mid-western) environment I grew up in, but equating Conservatism with Wisdom and Liberalism with a lack thereof sounds like the most natural thing in the world to me.

[Neonivek]

The problem is that the sense of Parody kinda got lost in the mix... and while the play on Wisdom and heart is interesting... The gameplay entirely betrays it to the point where it only serves to confuse and annoy the player.
-This was most likely cause by the fact that Heart and Wisdom was implimented early... but then gameplay was added over it.

To reimpliment a true Wisdom / Heart aspect of play would require creating a new dimension of the game.

So perhaps that is where we should dirrect our conversation next...

[E. Albright]

I don't know - I still see it as fine, and neither annoying nor confusing. But then, I've been playing LCS for 4+ years, so my perspective is skewed.

(I'd argue that the basic gameplay involving Heart and Wisdom haven't changed appreciably, BTW.)

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Assuming we kept the existing Heart/Wisdom system, what changes or improvements could be made to better serve the metaphor/stereotype?