Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[AncientEnemy]

I was taken by a strange mood at work and now have claimed a Dwarf Fortress workshop, and begun a construction.

Code: (Z0) [Select]

WWWO===OWWW
WWW|^^^|WWW
WO=O+++O=OW
W|**++bbb|W
W|**++bbb|W
W|**++bbb|W
W|BBBObbb|W
W|###|###|W
W|TTT|TTT|W
W|###|###|W
W|#+#|#+#|W
W|###|###|W
W|#+#|#+#|W
W|###|###|W
W|BBBObbb|W
W|**++bbb|W
W|**++bbb|W
W|**++bbb|W
WO=O+++O=OW
WWW|+++|WWW
WWW|vvv|WWW
WWWO===OWWW
W : outside walls
O & = & | : walls
^ & v : entrance/exit ramps
+ : floors
* : open space
b : open drawbridge
B : Retracted drawbridge
# : grate
T : pressure plate trigger

another view

Code: (Z0 rotated 90*) [Select]

WWWO===============OWWW
WWW|bbbb#T#####bbbb|WWW
O==Obbbb#T#+#+#bbbbO==O
|^++bbbb#T#####bbbb++V|
|^+++++O=======O+++++V|
|^+++++B#T#####B+++++V|
O==O***B#T#+#+#B***O==O
WWW|***B#T#####B***|WWW
WWWO===============OWWW

then above the section with the grates: (one of these over each section, with opposite settings)

Code: (Z+1[/code) [Select]

O===O
|RRR|
|RRR|
|RRR| O=O
|RRR| |*|
|RRR| |p|
|RRR| |P|
|RRR| |M|
O===O O=O


Code: (Z+2) [Select]

O===O
|rrr|
|rrr|
|rrrO===O
|rrrMMMM|
|rrrO=OPO
|rrr| |p|
|rrr| |*|
O===O O=O
R : Retracting bridge covered in magma
r : open retracting bridge (space full of magma)
Pp : screwpump
M : magma

whew that's alot of ascii.

anyway, each of the triggers is linked to all the bridges.
enemy steps on the trigger on side A and after the bridge delay all this happens
-the A side is closed off by the drawbridges
-the B side's bridges lower to accept more enemies
-the A Z+1 retracting bridge opens and dumps magma on his head
-the A Z+2 retracting bridge closes and starts to refill
-the B Z+1 retracting bridge closes
-the B Z+2 retracting bridge opens and refills the Z+1 level
-magma showers over the now walled off A killzone
-the magma drains through the grates (to a pit where it's pumped back up to Z+2


So, whatcha think? the Z+2 level will be filled by a tower of pumps from the pit (probably at Z-2)

assuming it works:
-big enough for caravans
-always accepts more enemies via the not-in-use side
-foolproof? (the way i see it the worst that can happen is an enemy gets through without being sufficiently magma'd if it's been tripped -alot- in quick succession, since one side starts with 2 loads of magma and when it's triggered, the other side starts filling with a 2nd load), and since everything's linked to every trigger, it shouldn't matter if it's tripped repeatedly
-MAGMA!

question:
when you're picking the 2 mechanisms to link a trigger to a bridge/door/whatever, in which order do you pick them (trigger -> thing it's going to be linked to, or vice versa)

man i'm gonna need alot of bauxite

[Shadowics]

Answer:
When you pick two mechanisms, the first one goes to the door/floodgate/bridge/etc, and the second one goes to the level/pressure plate/etc.

Problem:
Pressure plates don't send 'Toggle' signals when they're stepped on; they act like levers: 'On' when there's something on it, and 'Off' when it's empty. So if you connect each plate to all the bridges, they won't flip back and forth like you're picturing, rather, they'll all open together.

[AncientEnemy]

i was counting on that. there's the delay on the bridges, and all the bridges will start out in alternate positions:

starting positions
A Drawbridges lowered
B Drawbridges raised
A Z+1, B Z+2 retracting bridge extended
B Z+1, A Z+2 retracting bridge extended

Several devices, such as floodgates and bridges, have a delayed response to all incoming signals, and will not respond to subsequent signals until the first has taken effect.

so the goblin steps on then off the trigger, the bridges do end up just 'toggling'. even if he manages to step on the trigger again before he dies, the worst he can do is open his side back up

[Ivefan]

i was counting on that. there's the delay on the bridges, and all the bridges will start out in alternate positions

Won't matter. After trigging the plate once or twice all the bridges will be in the same state.

[AncientEnemy]

i was counting on that. there's the delay on the bridges, and all the bridges will start out in alternate positions

Won't matter. After trigging the plate once or twice all the bridges will be in the same state.

? how

[TheMirth]

By not toggling it is meant that whatever starting position the connected bridge is in, it will remain in that position until it is in sync with the leverl\pressureplate.

So you'd have  the two bridges toggled at first, then the plate would trigger and one of the bridges would change states but the other would remain unchanged. Then the plate would send another signal and both bridges would change state.

That's what is meant by not supporting toggles.

Through the use of another pressureplate and a series of water pumps you could create the toggle functionality you're looking for but their would be lag between the effects.

[Ivefan]

? how

What TheMirth said.

bridge A = 1(open) and B = 0(closed)
Plate is hit then it sends signal 1.
A is already 1 and thus keep the 1.
B changes to 1 and opens.
Plate is released and sends signal 0
A & B = 0 and thus both are closed.

Make a long corridor with multiple long bridges and just leave one tile wide floor in the middle where you place the Pressure plates.
Long enough to be able to dump all the gobs at once and enough after the plates so that the first one does not survive.

[AncientEnemy]

So you'd have  the two bridges toggled at first, then the plate would trigger and one of the bridges would change states but the other would remain unchanged.

hurrrrrgh that's lame. alright, i'll shoehorn in a pressure plate system then.

Code: (side view) [Select]

WWW~~WWW
WWWhhWWW
W d12d W
W WWWW W

~ : high pressure water
h : hatch
d : door
1 : pressure plate set 0-6
2: pressure plate set 7-7

triggers on the A side operate the hatches, B side operates the doors
1 operates A Drawbridges, A Z+1 retracting, B Z+2 retracting
2 operates B Drawbridges, B Z+1 retracting, A Z+2 retracting[/code]

[Ivefan]

The use of a water logic switch would make the chambers to constantly alternate/incinerate, but i guess that's not desired.

The bridges at entry level dont actually fill any purpose as the magma will simply fall through the chamber and not flood it. Also, it's not like the gobs have time to escape anyway.

You could skip the bridges completly, dig 2z deep pit for safety and only use the magma shower with a closed system by reusing the magma in the pit.

I like the idea of the brief magma rain. I think it will set them on fire but not incinerate them.
and burning goblins running around is always amusing.

Sorry for not helping you develop your idea. The complexity required for it to work just requires a little too much thinking for my taste ^^

[AncientEnemy]

The use of a water logic switch would make the chambers to constantly alternate/incinerate, but i guess that's not desired.

now i'm really confused. why would it constantly switch? side A pressure plates would open the hatches briefly, filling the two tiles with the bridge-linked plates, toggling the bridges. then they'd stay that way until side B's pressure plates opened the doors for a moment and let some of the water out, and they'd switch back

Code: [Select]

WWW~~WWW
WWWhhWWW
W d12d W
W WWWW Wwhere's the constantly alternating part??

The bridges at entry level dont actually fill any purpose as the magma will simply fall through the chamber and not flood it. Also, it's not like the gobs have time to escape anyway.

that's where you're wrong, I want the gobs trapped and then drizzled with lava. it's more fun that way.

You could skip the bridges completly, dig 2z deep pit for safety and only use the magma shower with a closed system by reusing the magma in the pit.

besides leaving out the bridges, that's the plan. Z-2 -> Z+2 pump tower that re-uses the same magma repeatedly. the bottom pit will be extra long to ensure there's always more magma available than what's in the system.

I like the idea of the brief magma rain. I think it will set them on fire but not incinerate them.
and burning goblins running around is always amusing.

set them on fire you say? well all the more reason to lock em up with the bridges. better trapped flaming goblins than running around in my fort

the magma will simply fall through the chamber and not flood it.

hmm, it won't spread at all when it hits a floor grate? if that's the case then could i get away without using bauxite mechanisms on the drawbridges?

[Ivefan]

Your water system would not, but i belive that the water logic switch is explained in dwarven computing somewhere.

that's where you're wrong, I want the gobs trapped and then drizzled with lava. it's more fun that way.

Wouldn't the Magma bridge and the Sealing bridges open/close at the same time? and using your watersystem would mean that the bridges will reset quite fast.

And no, if there's enough space below the grates, no magma will overflow.
And consider placing the Pressure plates in the center or end rather than the front of the trap as invaders rarely comes tightly packed.

[AncientEnemy]

Wouldn't the Magma bridge and the Sealing bridges open/close at the same time?

yeah... that's the idea?

and using your watersystem would mean that the bridges will reset quite fast.

huh? reset? the system i drew should turn the triggers into toggles. they step on Trigger A, it fills the room with pressure plates 1&2, plate 1 opens the magma cieling and lifts the drawbridges, and stays that way because the room stays filled until Trigger B opens the doors and lets the water out (turning plate 1 back off and plate 2 on)

And consider placing the Pressure plates in the center or end rather than the front of the trap as invaders rarely comes tightly packed.

I wanted em in the front because of the delay associated with the bridges and now the water-alternator-switch. i want to make sure they haven't crossed the trap before it goes off. plus any goblins behind them will simply be diverted down the other path (or smashed by the bridge, or flung somewhere)

[Ivefan]

Wouldn't the Magma bridge and the Sealing bridges open/close at the same time?

which means that the Sealing bridges does not really matter, atleast not for the purpose of keeping them inside for the magma to have effect. would have been another matter if you planned to deliver the magma manualy.

huh? reset? the system i drew should turn the triggers into toggles. they step on Trigger A, it fills the room with pressure plates 1&2, plate 1 opens the magma cieling and lifts the drawbridges, and stays that way because the room stays filled until Trigger B opens the doors and lets the water out (turning plate 1 back off and plate 2 on)

I didnt think it through and made the assumption that Side A & B in the post about the water system implied the plates in the room, not the corridor.

[AncientEnemy]

which means that the Sealing bridges does not really matter, atleast not for the purpose of keeping them inside for the magma to have effect. would have been another matter if you planned to deliver the magma manualy.

partially it's for style, and partly to keep any survivors locked in. i just like the idea of this hallways suddenly becoming a closed room with a whole floor's worth of magma falling through. plus it forces any stragglers down the alternate path and buys time for the chambers to refill