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[LegoLord]

You don't cut through plate with a sword

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armor#Effect_on_weapon_development

That article doesn't site any sources.  We can't rely on it for this.  Anyway, it is physically possibly for a sharp edge to slice into a plate of metal equal to or inferior the metal the edge is made of, assuming the blade is thicker than the plate (which is normally the case).  It was not something that happened with every blow.  It takes a great deal force, but it's doable.  And normally, the sword would be thrust into plate, not slashed against it.  Swords are designed so that they can be used in multiple ways.

[bjlong]

^^^ Sorry, LegoLord, but there is no historical evidence for swords cutting through plate armor. What you're referring to is using a sword to bash through subtantially weaker metal, which was not advised by any of the fight manuals we've got today, because plate armor was generally made to withstand a lot of force, was much thicker than a sword, and was made of the same quality materials.

The way to use a sword against plate armor was to grab its midsection for greater point control, and to stab at the weaker areas of the armor, such as vulnerable joints, or to reverse it entirely and use the hilt as a warhammer.

For further evidence, please remember that plate armor was made to withstand piercing attacks, which are like slicing attacks only with a lot more force over a much smaller area. If this was the case, then you'd need an extraordinary slash to cut through something so designed.

I'd like to provide you with some sources, but all I have is the ARMA website which I despise, yet accept as a necessary evil.

However! Societies which lacked much metal (Read: most oriental civs, most famously Japan) would have to come up with armor which worked without metal. As such, these armors were generally inferior to their swords, which made for the nifty cut-you-in-half legends we see today.

[LegoLord]

Wait, plate armor was more than an inch thick?  Yikes, I'd rather have leather and chain armor than that. 

Isn't there another type of armor?  Scale mail?  Something like that?

[bjlong]

The weight wasn't as bad as all that--as low as 45 lbs, with a good weight distribution. Take your heaviest clothes and put them on and you're probably about 20 lbs heavier.

[Pilsu]

Your average trooper wore a hauberk if that. Knights in full plate were the equivalent of tanks and cost about as much

I don't think making swords useless against anything tougher than a fluffy wambler would add anything to the game but just saying, you're not gonna slash the black knight's limbs off any time soon

[Neonivek]

The weight wasn't as bad as all that--as low as 45 lbs, with a good weight distribution. Take your heaviest clothes and put them on and you're probably about 20 lbs heavier.

Well it depends on the exact Plate Armor.

some people realised that if you shape the armor in a certain way it deflects missles better... which of course raised the weight.

Also my heaviest clothes are probably around 5-10 pounds at best.

[bjlong]

^^^ Certainly, there was a range, but the battlefield stuff was surprisingly light.

Also, you have much lighter clothes than me.

[Vattic]

I would like to know how things like proper war hammers might be handled, I don't mean big hammers here though but hammers with a small pointed side designed for piercing armour, not sure if that includes plate mail however.

[Reyyvo]

Points to make -
1) if the edge was sharp enough, in theory it could blow through the armor if given enough force. I dont know if you did your own research there on the armor, but 1 inch of steel does sound pretty formidible.
2) jeans and t-shirt plus shoes, about 3 pounds, plus maybe 2 pounds for my parka. How do you have 20 pounds of clothes?
3) the game could have an initial amount of force, and based on the edge and size of impact could determine how much force is lost through each tissue layer, so if little enough energy is lost, a person could still be severed, pretty close to reality.

[Mel_Vixen]

Lergo if xyou want an relieable article look at this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-sword

As source here count the codex Wallerstein as well as many other fenceing-books.


-----

1: The force needed to cut through an good Platemale was incredible. Even Arkebuse bullits and Crossbowbolts glanced away.
The force distribiution of an cutting edge was much higher, because it covered an great area, in comparson to an stingweapon. This is realy bad for the stuff you want to do here. This is why you would need an unhuman strength or an very long weapon. The best guess would be an long Gleve or Berdysh if you want to "cut" Platearmor.

2: The classical Plate armor was 20-40 kilograms but covered the entire body. The weigt was distribiuted over the entire body also so your muscles had less to do. Walking, running and standing up was possible. Mounting a horse could be done without help. The average soldier nowadays carry normaly 1.5 to sometimes 3 times as much the the average Knight.

3. the force get transmited yes but thanks to armor is distributed over an big area. Espacally chainarmor has that effect but also Platemale. You could break some bones but rip somebody in its Armor wasnt possible as far as i know.

[LegoLord]

I seem to have accidentally given y'all the idea that I don't think plate armor should be in the game.  I was actually referring to my personal preference with wearing armor, not what some other guy is gonna wear

[bjlong]

So apparently people have invented lightweight materials such as "cotton" and "wool." Well, let me tell you, these things are for pansies. Real men wear kevlar, steel, and the blood of their enemies, and a leather codpiece, and nothing else.

(It's a leather jacket that I have that weighs about 10lbs on its own. Add to that all the stuff I put in my pockets and I get up to ~20 lbs.)

[Granite26]

I think ya'll are mixing your scales.

a 1 foot by 1 foot, 1 inch thick steel plate is about 40 lbs (18.5 kilos).  Sure, it's evenly distributed weight, but that's 120 lbs (best guess) minimum for a breastplate, and likely more than that.

So it was SOMETIMES 1 inch thick, in places, and SOMETIMES weighed as little as 40 lbs (I'm guessing for a decent breastplate, there...)

[Mel_Vixen]

Nope the entire Armor was around 20-30 kilos (Lb = 500 or 600 gramms iirc) not only the breastplate.

@Legolord:

No you didnt its just that i had the right info at hand.

[Foa]

Nope the entire Armor was around 20-30 kilos (Lb = 500 or 600 gramms iirc) not only the breastplate.

@Legolord:

No you didnt its just that i had the right info at hand.

It's ~495 gramThe current and most powerful armor today is scale-mail, stacked in a way that there is always 6 layers of scales no matter how you roll, or move, and uses the next best armor's materials.

+ Armor Durability ( Previous had a cracking problem, problem is that one shot = weakens the whole part )
+ Mobility ( Previous was a slab of specially made ceramics )

Misc. Fact : Ceramics makes the strongest blades ( Better than Steel, and Titanium, etc )