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[Granite26]

Another interesting point:  With the new enhanced underground diversity, it could be possible to restrict mining more because of the prevelance of the underdark.  I.E. you are encouraged to use existing caves and caverns as the basis of your fort.

[jamoecw]

Really, 12 year olds marrying is a bit screwed up even for the time period.

the Lex Julia demanded that penalties be placed on those who did not marry and procreate by a certain age. To guarantee inheritance, therefore, men were forced to marry young, by 18 to 21 at the latest

In ancient Jewish culture, the onset of puberty, or the ages of 12 or 13 (in females) and 13 or 14 (in males), have been suggested.

he age of Aisha at marriage is an unsettled issue, and the subject of increasing attention in recent years. There are several hadiths (said to have been narrated by Aisha herself) which state she was six or seven years old when she was married and nine years old when the marriage was consummated, but according to some authors there exists evidence implying that Aisha may have been anywhere from twelve to twenty years old when she married.

 statutory age of consent to sexual intercourse for the purposes of the criminal law in the United Kingdom can be found as early as 1275. It was originally 12, was raised to 13 in 1875 and to 16 in 1885.

For morbid curiosity's sake, the world's youngest mother was apparently aged 5. The youngest grandmother was allegedly aged 17.
[edit]http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asphttp://www.nealirc.org/Gerontology/FamilyRecord.html[/edit]

One common belief about the Renaissance is that children, especially girls, married young. In some noble houses marriages were indeed contracted at a young age, for reasons of property and family alliance, but in fact the average age of marriage was quite old -- in the middle twenties.  Hence your confusion.

[Granite26]

For morbid curiosity's sake, the world's youngest mother was apparently aged 5. The youngest grandmother was allegedly aged 17.

Linky?  (That's the only bit I don't buy about that)


Edit:

Holy $%#$%# crap, dude....

[Pilsu]

In retrospect I have no idea why I said that. I know better

How common was it though?

[Rowanas]

Depends when and where. In 1400s Europe it tended to be a vaguely common occurrence, maybe half of all noble marriages (I'll go find data to back me up) but in the common people marrying young was less common.

[jamoecw]

Depends when and where. In 1400s Europe it tended to be a vaguely common occurrence, maybe half of all noble marriages (I'll go find data to back me up) but in the common people marrying young was less common.

the nobles betrothed young, but married late, the commoners married young, but not as young as 12.  in the 1200 europe though it was fairly common among the nobles.  early roman republic era was common for young marriages.  anytime population is necessary for a culture, you end up with young marriages in that culture.

[neek]

Nice off-topic. Sadly, I learned nothing before.

This is what I'm thinking: We need a consensus (or rather, Toady will give us one) for the Vanilla game, and what we do can go from there. Seeing as we're dealing with a fantasy world, we can really muck around with the day however we want.

1). Days should be kept as they are, 1/7th a week. A week is 1/4th of a month. A month is 1/3rd a season. A season is 1/4th a year. This is a clean set up. Raws should allow for longer weeks, or shorter weeks. Or variable days in the month. Or more months. or fewer seasons.
 a). Night should last a week. Daytime should last a week. The two days in between should be "dusk" or "dawn." This leaves days being a rather arbitrary unit. Nocturnal creatures would then have a longer stay on the open map, rather than pathing in-and-out to keep up their habits.
 b). Dwarves are cave-adaptable, which means the sun disorients them. This is not the same as nocturnal, should it ever be.

2). Costs of jobs should be RAW'd, should be adjustable.

3). Pathfinding should be cached.

4). Main topic: The players should define the scale they want to play in. If you want three hours between your Mountainhome caravan, have three hours. If you want 1 hour, have one-hour. This shouldn't be debatable. The best about this game is that style of the game is determined by the player, not by the game and the genre. If we can keep it a sandbox, then we shouldn't debate what is the best for EVERY player, other than admitting that every player needs to keep his options.

So, keep the current day/night cycle abstract from the work load; we can have fun tweaking this to our demands, but it shouldn't be done so in Vanilla. What it takes to haul an item should be seriously reconsidered. Multiple haulers and hand-offs should be used, instead of it taking a season to move a bin full of gold bars from point a to point b. What it takes to move from point A to point B should be pre-pathed and cached out, to save everyone a headache.

And we've already agreed that less-consistent caravans and ambushes and sieges are a plus.

[Draco18s]

b). Dwarves are cave-adaptable, which means the sun disorients them. This is not the same as nocturnal, should it ever be.

You mean the sky.  The sun isn't visible at night.

[neek]

As the game is now, they get negative thoughts from the sun (but not the sky) if they're cave adaptable. Despite my bad wording on it, it should remain that cave adaption != nocturnal.

[Granite26]

As the game is now, they get negative thoughts from the sun (but not the sky) if they're cave adaptable. Despite my bad wording on it, it should remain that cave adaption != nocturnal.

That may change if there's ever a day/night cycle in play

[Draco18s]

As the game is now, they get negative thoughts from the sun (but not the sky) if they're cave adaptable. Despite my bad wording on it, it should remain that cave adaption != nocturnal.

That may change if there's ever a day/night cycle in play

Exactly my point, if cave adaption != nocturnal, then dwarves will get sick from the night sky, which has no sun.

[neek]

My bad, homies. It was what I meant from the start. I wasn't arguing Draco18's correction, but was agreeing with it.

[Stephen]

I think, for practical purposes, the time it takes things to happen is just about right.  If you compare two actions, or compare things to the dwarven calendar, things are pretty screwy, but that's pretty much necessary.  It's pretty clear that no system will be realistic and practical.  Simply speeding up a simulation of realtime, to any degree, will be either too fast to manage in some areas or too slow to be usable in others.

On another note... might walking/hauling speed be limited by pathfinding?

[Draco18s]

On another note... might walking/hauling speed be limited by pathfinding?

Not really.  Mod your dwarves to have [SPEED:10], they'll move a lot faster (and you'll actually see them pause when something has to pathfind).