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[EuchreJack]

So, do sleepers in the CCS make them more liberal?
I recall in previous versions they would make the CCS less effective by making it more liberal, but I don't know if that's the case now.  Sounds kinda funny, so here's a few "Liberal" statements from the CCS sleepers to their assossiate members.

Prostitute: Hey, did you know if we allowed more abortions, I could sleep with you guys more often, and charge less?
Telemarketer: Hey, more free speech means we can say whatever we want!
Crack Head: Better wages mean we can buy more guns!
Army Veteran: Gun control has no affect on true warriors, for they are skilled in getting guns no matter what!
Redneck: Yah, dah cops be'en harr'assin us too much, yessur.
Another Prostitute:  Why you raggin on the gays?  It's not like you complained last night!
Hick: Where'd the sun go?
Transient: If they did away with the animal research, guys like us could clean up! (Remember Barney from the Simpsons saying something like this in Season Four.  Other episodes mention this fact, I think.)

I'd like to hear if anyone actually knows how this works.  Also, I'd like to hear more suggestions how sleepers in the CCS lobby for their issues.

[mainiac]

I think the most effective way to subvert the CCS is by making it's message MORE conservative.  Don't stop at spouting conservative nonsense, put Ron Paul and David Duke to shame.  That way the backlash effect makes the public more liberal.

[Servant Corps]

I see the CCS Sleepers as creating splinter terrorist cells that are either more 'moderate' (or more 'radical'), but always at war with the main CCS. The moderate CCS agents turn society more liberal, while the conservative CCS just destroys the CCS' ability to conduct strikes.

[beorn080]

Would be  an interesting mechanic if, by converting enough CCS members, you could convert the CCS to at least the MCS. Would take a decent chunk of time and numbers but say 100 points of control, with bosses = 10, members = 5, and crackheads and other lower end people = 1, would allow you to corrupt the CCS.

[Servant Corps]

If that happens though, the endgame amendment would likely not be able to trigger/occur, since the CCS will react against any actual Conservativism. Though I guess that could be replaced with the Moderate Crime Squad convicing the US government to declare martial law.

[Neonivek]

My issue is that the CCS need methods of making your characters sleepers too without you having too easy of a time figuring it out.

Anything you can do the CCS should also be capable of doing.

So here is my suggestion
When a character gets arrested, goes to the courtroom, or enters jail... the CCS should have a chance to brainwash them (Afterall they have the law on their side) without you knowing.

There should be other methods though as you don't get arrested that often... For example during a siege, dates, or displacement.

[a1s]

here's an idea:
a) whenever your activist is out on the streets (causing trouble, selling brownies and so on) they can be taken. if you pay close attention you can notice this, otherwise you might be out of luck. Once taken the liberal undergoes an interrogation by the CSS, in much the same fashion that you interrogate people, except you won't see this. finally when the liberal is turned, he will be returned to you. from that point on, the CSS-sleeper will only bring in 30% of the cash she is supposed to, their liberalizing work is ineffectual (at all), and any mission she is part of will draw CCS attention (they will be the conservative response, and they will do it quicker).
b)so... if you suspect someone (anyone) is a sleeper, you can have your guys bring him down to interrogation. 2 thing can happen now. Either the guy is guilty, in which case it's a regular interrogation, allowing you to bring down their wisdom as a bonus, and giving you your member back. Or the guy is not guilty, in which case he will never convert, and you will have to execute a liberal member, or risk having him run away to the police (like any kidnapped person would). CCS can do the same, and root out your agents.
c) just though of it: once your sleeper (the one you placed in CSS) is deep enough, he can attempt a risky business of investigating where the intel comes from. if successful, he will reveal  the name of the sleeper CSS has in your midst. the alternative is that he gets caught and it's bye-bye sleeper.

[mainiac]

As an alternative to the disappear thing (which promotes tedious micromanagement to keep track):
The CSS will grab your agents, making you think they've been arrested.  After a few weeks, they'll be snuck into the court holding cell by the CSS contact there to stand trial or be rescued without you knowing the better.

There's a couple spots where the friends of the abductee might catch on, (like any abduction).  A raid on the CSS hideout can discover and rescue the liberal.  A raid to free them from the court house will show they aren't there.  And sleepers at the court house can say the liberal isn't there, reveal a liberals mysterious appearance or (high risk) shadow a CSS sleeper to discover where the missing liberal captive is being held.

This way your agent doesn't spontaneously disappear, giving you suspicion, but is nabbed out of the police system when you don't have contact with them.

This would work even better if there were other reasons for a captive liberal to not be in the holding cell, like a secret CIA prison.  Or maybe unregulated cops beat liberals and transfer them to the hospital, and the CSS disguises it as this.  Or maybe the CSS breaks the liberal at the police station?  Surely they have contacts there?

[EuchreJack]

Honestly, I don't see the CCS and the LCS as identical organizations.  The CCS doesn't have the finesse of the LCS, but they have brute strength.

Therefore, perhaps instead of the CCS using sleepers, they might do something different.  I'm not certain what that would be, but it might involve bribing people for info and gear.

[mainiac]

Where did the sleeper idea come from, anyway?

[Servant Corps]

* Servant Corps claims credit for introducing it in a previous topic as a way to simulate internal dissent.

[mainiac]

But you've only been on these forums for like a year and sleepers go back waaay longer then that.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Sleeper agents in general have been in LCS in their current form (minus the recent sleeper orders screen) since before I started playing it, and I've been around these forums longer than almost anyone save about 50 people, most of whom no longer post. I registered in 2004. Back then there was no Dwarf Fortress, it was all LCS and the first Armok game -- and LCS was still being actively developed by Bay 12 Games. Interestingly, many of the old threads from then had similar suggestions to the ones given now.

CCS sleepers specifically are more recent, but the CCS itself is a fairly new addition to the game, so that's to be expected.

[E. Albright]

Aye - what Jonathan said. I've been around about as long as he has, though I lurked unregistered for a very long time. Sleepers have been in for as long as I've played... I started sometime in fall '04.

(Not to turn this into a beard waving contest or anything. Just bearing witness as a grizzled fogy and all that.)

[mainiac]

We don't mind you waving your beard.  We'll just stare up in dwarf struck awe.