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Author Topic: Desert  (Read 12158 times)

Pilsu

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Re: Desert
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2009, 02:21:04 pm »

Hmm, adventure mode will gain access to building ability. It's a safe bet it's not gonna work but manually building the aqueduct would be an interesting task
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Faces of Mu

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Re: Desert
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2009, 02:31:51 pm »

Hmm, adventure mode will gain access to building ability. It's a safe bet it's not gonna work but manually building the aqueduct would be an interesting task

*drooooool!*



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Flashzom

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Re: Desert
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2009, 02:48:53 pm »

Drinking only blood would probably give you iron poisoning. Then there's the question how did the enemies make it all the way to your hole in the ground without any supplies

There's just so many leaks in this plan I don't even know where to begin. Any real desert settlement would invariably be based around an oasis. Just add those into the game and deserts aren't a total waste

Reclaimers and hauling water through the desert are negative sum games.  A donkey drinks 1 gallon per day, travels 30 miles per day, and can haul 30 gallons worth of weight.  For 20 dwarves (drink 1 gallon per day, reclaim half) living 300 miles into the desert, it would take one donkey every single day to bring enough in, and that's not counting profit or the drivers or anything.

Crude reclaimers could get what, 5 gallons of water from a human (on the high end).  (Reclaimers always seemed like a violation of conservation of matter to me.  In order for it to work, the water lost to evaporation (sweat, plants) has to be regained somehow.  It's like putting a bandage on a splinter when you've got a gunshot wound

The original argument was 'if we make booze require water, and plants require water, nothing could survive in the desert'.  Nothing is stopping people from being clever (carving out underground rivers, for example), but I don't think we should go out of our why to make it possible for non-clever people.  There's a plate of gold?  I'm sure they'll find a way to get water there, but that doesn't mean that we have to magically warp the world to make some special case work.

Hell, people are already building cross world aqueducts...
Firstly, on the note of iron poisoning, it is possible to pull the iron out of the blood with a very weak magnet. Magnets can be easily made as well, by taking a piece of iron, facing it due north, and hitting it repeatedly or by constantly rubbing a cloth on it to build up charge. Also, electric currents can create a magnetic field, and considering mechanical power is already implemented (though not fully developed, obviously) then it might not be a far step to electrical power. Though whether or not the game gets THAT in depth is another question entirely.
Secondly, it doesn't violate the conservation of mass or energy if you are using coal to burn underneath the basin into boiling out the water from the blood. Granted it wouldn't be very efficient of a system most likely, but it would still extract water none the less.
You are right though on the point that unless you had constant invading armies to slaughter and drain, then the practicality of it is short lived when you have to water every head in the fortress.
And on the note of reclaiming sweat/urine, well, yeah, water would definitely be lost there in some form or another. Not to mention it would be broken down to facilitate other bodily functions.
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Neonivek

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Re: Desert
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2009, 07:11:55 pm »

I think Magnets (known as Lodestones) were pretty much still a mystery at this time... Not only that... but the Iron in blood as well.

Anyhow

Quote
I don't think we should go out of our why to make it possible for non-clever people.

That is kinda elitist the way you put it (so I am assuming I am misreading it). We should go out of the way to allow NORMAL people access to most of the content in the game

Now we shouldn't go out of our way to allow dumb people access to the game...

If living in the desert suddenly required you to teraform the whole region, then there is something wrong. Deserts are supposed to represent difficult environments... not impossible ones.
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TheMirth

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Re: Desert
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2009, 07:20:43 pm »

Some areas truly are uninhabitable.



I don't see dwarfs as handling the middle of the sahara by building a several hundred mile aqueduct.
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Neonivek

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Re: Desert
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2009, 07:25:35 pm »

Some areas truly are uninhabitable.

I don't see dwarfs as handling the middle of the sahara by building a several hundred mile aqueduct.

They COULD but that would be a waste of resources. however the player is immune to sanity anyhow.

Your forgetting however that the game doesn't simulate Barren Deserts for some odd reason.

It would be a challenge... but the player shouldn't be barred dirrectly or indirrectly from doing so by only allowing obsessed people to do so.

Mind you if it because so difficult due to the inability to find water or suitable food sources... Id be alright with that... (Though remember water is often underground).

However if your site is right beside a lake outside the immediate playing area and your in the desert... then there is something seriously wrong!

Then again... TheMirth's statement is moot anyhow... because people have built cities in similar situations. (and several fictional ones too)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 07:29:57 pm by Neonivek »
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Desert
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2009, 07:34:25 pm »






A human response: "Some areas truly are uninhabitable."

A dwarf response: "By the gods! Will you look at all that GLASS!"
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 08:13:35 pm by SirHoneyBadger »
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zchris13

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Re: Desert
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2009, 07:39:44 pm »

If you poured magma all over (nuked) a desert, would it turn to glass?
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Duke 2.0

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Re: Desert
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2009, 07:48:08 pm »

If you poured magma all over (nuked) a desert, would it turn to glass?
Disaster movies say yes?

 At least, I'm sure that was featured in The Core.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Desert
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2009, 08:26:28 pm »

Magma might or might not, but nuking definitely DOES work. You can go and check out glass deserts at places where they tested many of the first nuclear weapons, so conceivably...

Anyways, deserts are inhospitable to dwarves, merchants should carry water (and sand) but I doubt it would be enough for farming and the like once that takes water, and the primary decision when departing in a desert should be "Do I depart by the river or really really hope there's water underground?"
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 08:28:13 pm by GlyphGryph »
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Savok

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Re: Desert
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2009, 08:35:07 pm »

No, I am referring to dwarf fortress, only things that existed prior to 1400 ad are allowed in it.  Suggesting things that were created after that usually results in harsh criticism around here.

Since dune technology if memory serves me correct is roughly 3600AD tech (after a war with computer controlled machines caused humans to reject all computers) I doubt it will fly.

Agreed.

Although Toady can put in post-1400 stuff if he likes. And he will.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Desert
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2009, 08:42:20 pm »

Funny anecdote about that is, I've heard reports of the same type of glass from nuclear strikes being found in the middle of deserts that were never actually used to test anything nuclear, atleast as far as we know.

Apparently, it's part of the whole "chariots of the gods" range of theories that suggest either a very advanced civilization existed before ours, or that another species (aliens in other words) were in conflict, in the past, on our planet.
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Aspgren

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Re: Desert
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2009, 08:43:20 pm »

If you poured magma all over (nuked) a desert, would it turn to glass?
Disaster movies say yes?

 At least, I'm sure that was featured in The Core.


Fun fact: Massive parts of the moons surface is made out of glass.
The reason is because of all the meteroids that've hit the surface, heating it up and bam. Glass.
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Pilsu

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Re: Desert
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2009, 09:20:00 pm »

Toady did speak of more varied underground features, maybe that means there's actually something to find in non-mountain regions when you dig down

Establishing a fort on an underground river in the middle of a desert and having caravans come through to refill would be a nice feature once they actually travel across the world. Otherwise they'd be forced to go around
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Neonivek

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Re: Desert
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2009, 09:24:04 pm »

Quote
Fun fact: Massive parts of the moons surface is made out of glass.

It becomes less impressive when you tell people the definition of glass...
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