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[Duke 2.0]

 Not to mention the search function is somewhat vague. It will search for whatever word you are searching for in other words. Say you are looking for something involving something mush, but the search feature brings up all the mushroom topics. Hell, all posts where mushrooms have been mentioned. This being DF, such has been mentioned thousands of times already. I wish nobody to shift through all of the hundreds of pages of mush posts.

 So yes, we can allow for people to not search for some things if the search feature brings up hundreds of posts, most of which are useless to everybody.

[SolarShado]

Back on topic, if not really contributing more to it:

I've occasionally wondered just what dwarve make all these statues of, i look forward to the improvements mentioned here. It'd really cool to be able to tell the dwarve what to make a statue of, each dwarf could have a statue of him/herself in their room . Or you could line the entryway with statues of the nobles you've killed who've died in your fort. Or... (i'll stop now)

Or am i an idiot and it already says what the statues are of? I can't recall actually looking...

[SirHoneyBadger]

Hmmm:  Maybe there should be a 5 day waiting period (after signup) before posting to suggestions?

Actually not a bad idea. A few days before being able to make new THREADS in the suggestion forum. Replying to existing threads would of course be allowed.

Or perhaps a SMF mod causing a huge blinking message "DID YOU SEARCH FIRST?!" to be printed the first few times a newly registered user creates a new thread.

I'd go for this a little bit more, as long as there were areas which actually *did* allow new people to post. Maybe a "newbie" section of the Forums, although I don't personally like that term.

Coupled with something like this, though, I think the forums really *could* do with some slightly organized "welcoming" services, on a volunteer basis.

Maybe the "newbie" section could have some volunteer moderators? Made up of people who have been on the Forums for a year or more.

[Footkerchief]

Maybe the "newbie" section could have some volunteer moderators? Made up of people who have been on the Forums for a year or more.

I consider a newbie holding pen pretty distasteful, and how would moderator powers help?  I really don't think there's a newbie problem at all -- I've been here a while and I still get excited about a "new" idea and forget to search.  If we started to get a massive influx of trolls or whatever, then maybe we'd have a use for a moderator's (mostly destructive) powers.

[Sowelu]

I'm pretty sure that idea only applied to restricting the "Suggestions" forum, not anything else.

But I don't think it's a good idea anyway.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Eh, they can't all be winners.

But, then, I don't really see where "penning up the newbies" is a lot different than putting them in quarantine.

And I wasn't really suggesting that these be real actual moderators, with any kind of powers, just people with a lot of experience, who would keep an eye on the new people, to make sure they were finding their way around, and not driven off by trolls.

[Aqizzar]

Can we talk about statues?

Just because there are other, old, dead, threads on the topic doesn't mean people shouldn't bring it up.

This one in particular, making statues be of things, seems especially perplexing to me.  I've never tried to tell Toady what to do (note that I'm never even in this area), but this suggestion is just a no-brainer.  It would take five minutes to copy over and adapt the random picture code from engravings, and suddenly fortress decoration enters a whole new world.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Yes, let's. Sorry.

I'd like to be able to do two things with statues. I'd like to be able to, more or less, commission specific things
(like, to tell my dwarf woodcarver to carve a statue of a dragon, out of rosewood)

I'd also like to be able to commission more generic memorabilia
(like say, tell my stonecarver to carve a statue of a specific dwarf who's died, recently).

In either case, I would like some authority over the generalities of the piece: what the subject of the piece is (dragon, hydra, specific dwarf, badgers, war, death, sex, cheese making, beer, whatever--could be choseable from a list of the things the artist either likes, dislikes, or has witnessed, etc., or chosen from a list of things your fortress contains, or does, which the dwarf making the statue would then have to seek out.
In other words, something the dwarf would reasonably want to make, and have reference points of.), and--maybe, but certainly optional--what it's actually made of (stone, bronze, ice, you get the idea).

Aside from that, though, I want my dwarfs to still be able to run with that idea, and make it their own.

They might add additional materials.

they might make it about a dragon they've seen wandering around, or one that's caged in my petting zoo, or one they've specifically fought, or just their fantasy of what a dragon might look like.

They might add components to it, like having the dragon fighting a couple of dwarfs, or breathing fire, or just sleeping on a horde of treasure.

Maybe they'd even go to other dwarfs with specific skills, and have *them* add to it--like, one does the basic structure of the piece, and another one adds some simple clockwork mechanisms to make it move it's eyes (or tell the time, or swing the axe it's holding wildly, as part of a gruesome trap), and a third one might inlay it with gold, or set gems in the eyes.

That might be more likely with "memorabilia" pieces. If a dwarf who's been struck down was beloved enough, then a bunch of his/her friends might gather around and add to it, while an unloved immigrant might only get a simple clay deathmask.

For that matter, commemorative artwork might function a bit like artifacts, where the dwarfs themselves could up and decide *to* build a piece, spontaneously, honoring a fallen hero, or a legendary craftsdwarf.

They wouldn't (tend to) have special, or mystical, qualities (unless dwarfs with those kinds of skills should happen to get involved), but they could certainly be valuable, although if you ever tried to sell a beloved piece, it might cause a tantrum spiral that would take your fortress down with it.

[BloodBeard]

That's quite an expansion on the idea SirHoneyBadger  . If it were to go that far I think it could warrent splitting statues into 2 or more types that you can make. Portrait statues and dynamic statues, something along those lines.

[Footkerchief]

I'd like to be able to do two things with statues. I'd like to be able to, more or less, commission specific things
(like, to tell my dwarf woodcarver to carve a statue of a dragon, out of rosewood)

I'd also like to be able to commission more generic memorabilia
(like say, tell my stonecarver to carve a statue of a specific dwarf who's died, recently).

In either case, I would like some authority over the generalities of the piece: what the subject of the piece is (dragon, hydra, specific dwarf, badgers, war, death, sex, cheese making, beer, whatever--could be choseable from a list of the things the artist either likes, dislikes, or has witnessed, etc., or chosen from a list of things your fortress contains, or does, which the dwarf making the statue would then have to seek out.
In other words, something the dwarf would reasonably want to make, and have reference points of.), and--maybe, but certainly optional--what it's actually made of (stone, bronze, ice, you get the idea).

Aside from that, though, I want my dwarfs to still be able to run with that idea, and make it their own.

I get the feeling that allowing the player to pick topics/subjects for art is something Toady doesn't ever plan on.  However, maybe nobles could commission specific works of art -- that would require giving them the ability to queue up jobs for other dwarves, which we might get at some point:

# Bloat250, AUTOMATIC MANDATE HANDLING, (Future): Could add an option to make noble mandates go directly into the work order queue.

For that matter, commemorative artwork might function a bit like artifacts, where the dwarfs themselves could up and decide *to* build a piece, spontaneously, honoring a fallen hero, or a legendary craftsdwarf.

They wouldn't (tend to) have special, or mystical, qualities (unless dwarfs with those kinds of skills should happen to get involved), but they could certainly be valuable, although if you ever tried to sell a beloved piece, it might cause a tantrum spiral that would take your fortress down with it.

Now that I can get behind.  In general it would be nice to have more of a middle ground between moods (which are as spontaneous as it gets) and player-created jobs -- i.e., spontaneous actions that don't necessarily have top priority or dire consequences for failure.  Even simple things like dwarves automatically "building" furniture in their bedrooms -- or queuing the job for another dwarf -- would be cute.  In other threads, people have also mentioned stuff like dwarves tinkering with various types of crafting in their spare time.

If it were to go that far I think it could warrent splitting statues into 2 or more types that you can make. Portrait statues and dynamic statues, something along those lines.

This also raises the point that statues aren't necessarily good for depicting everything that an engraving can depict (and maybe vice versa).  For example, the good old "dwarf and dwarves" engraving might be a rather confused-looking statue, although those aren't unheard of.

[Heron TSG]

I'd take several statues of dwarves with dwarves as long as I'd be able to get more than one kind of statue! (a stone dwarf, grayed out and immobile!)

[SirHoneyBadger]

"(a stone dwarf, grayed out and immobile!)"

This gave me an idea:

Another thing about statues is, dwarfs would probably be clever enough about them to allow for interchangeable parts, in certain cases.

So that you could "equip" certain statues with a weapon, with armour, with whatever. They'd basically be exactly like the quote above: a stone dwarf, grayed out and immobile.

So hopefully not a whole lot of code involved.

Ofcourse, your real dwarfs would have to have a way of adding the items to the statues, but it would be a lot more interesting if they could add spare weapons and armour to the statue, instead of just throwing them on a pallet. 

Stonecarvers, glasscutters, bonecarvers, metalcrafters, idle weapon/armour smiths might even make items that were specifically tagged "statue only", meaning they would look nice on one of these 'action-statues' (because, what's an action figure, after all, but a little tiny plastic statue?), but wouldn't be balanced properly, designed, or sharpened, to be used in actual combat.

Weavers/Clothiers, possibly with the aid of a woodcarver, etc, might display their wares next to their shops on mannequin-type statues.

Other shops might do the same, and such statues might help attract customers.

Statues could also be painted/repainted over time, and ones with eyes of glass or bone might possibly be exchanged for large cut gems, down the road, or just replaced (possibly by a spy, with a message concealed behind it).

Some of them might even be anatomically correct (and I'm talking internal organs here) to the point where they could become surgeon's tools.

Their chests, heads, and limbs might have little doors that open up, for instance.

Bloodflow might even be simulated (more or less) by water that's been dyed a cheery red.

Another thing dwarfs might do is spontaneously create a statue, or statues, in-for instance-a salt mine. This was actually done by human miners in the Wieliczka salt mine, located near Krakow, Poland:

http://www.photo-exhibits.com/europe/poland/wieliczka_salt_mine_photos/color_photographs/wieliczka_statues.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine

http://www.thesalmons.org/lynn/saltmine.html

http://www.travelblog.org/Europe/Poland/Lesser-Poland/Krakow/blog-6241.html

I haven't been there, but I've always wanted to go.

Unfortunately, apparently a lot of the statues are being damaged by moisture, so they only open up a tiny bit of the mines to the public, while they're trying to conserve the sculptures.

Such statues in your Fortress ought to last, provided you kept them away from too much moisture--including too much foot-traffic, depending ofcourse on your biome.

Spontaneous sculptures might also be formed in ice that your dwarfs have access to. They might take it upon themselves to decide to sculpt a frescoe of something they like, or a dining scene of their friends, etc (in Weilicza, there's a very accurate reproduction of Da Vinci's 'Last Supper'), or even religious icons.

These might be destroyed every year (the sculpture representing the god of winter, perhaps?), or they might last-as long as they were kept away from heat-depending on the biome your dwarfs occupied.

You'd *really* want to keep dragons and fire imps away from them, though.

Statues might even be carveable from natural stalagtites-stalactites, which would then be susceptible to vibration, so you wouldn't want your dwarfs doing any heavy work around them, like additional mining, except possibly your Legendary miners.

Other statues might be carved from gypsum, which reacts badly to moisture, changes in temperature, and to vibration--but I don't think as badly as salt does to moisture, or (my fantasy version of) stalactites/stalagmites to vibration, and ofcourse not nearly as badly as ice to heat. So, while pretty much anything could destroy them over time, they'd be a little more hardy than salt (to moisture) stalac/gs (to vibration), or water (to heat).

Another type of "statue" could be a naturally beautiful/unusual rock or crystal formation, like this one:

http://giantcrystals.strahlen.org/america/naica.htm

Not a true "statue" (statues?), but certainly statuesque, and something you may want to preserve for your Fortress. They'd be a little more fragile than gypsum true-statues.

The crystals themselves aren't particularly valuable as minerals, in this case, but maybe Toady might want to occasionally add a "formation" (or whatever) tag to the geology engine, which would give such rocks/crystals an added value modifier (once you discovered them, by exposing them to the air), as long as you left them alone, and didn't try to mine them.

Considering that an emerald cluster larger than the chair you're currently sitting on (even if it's a barca-lounger) was recently discovered, and that gold itself very occasionally forms crystals, such a discovery might factor in to a very large portion of your Fortress's wealth.

It might even lead to tourism!

Ofcourse, you could still mine a few of the crystals out, if you had to, and leave the rest in place, if only for aesthetic and traffic interests, but once a certain percentage of the whole was mined, they all could become just rocks.

Some might be extremely fragile, and others might be totally unaffected by change, depending on the type of crystal, and the formation itself (which might have a base durability-either positive or negative? which could then be added to the durability of the gem or gems (in the case of more than one type, the average of the two) it was made from.). 

Considering the fragility of these different types of statues, you'd have to consider their needs, if you wanted to preserve them, which again would add a nice little strategic mechanic to keep in mind while designing your unique fortress.

[Heron TSG]

I liked the 'statues as armor/weapon racks and mannequins' idea, but the spontaneous carvings and rock formations kinda threw it off track. Anyways, It'd be nice to have an army of platinum statues in golden armor guarding the tomb of my ruler. 

[SirHoneyBadger]

Well...part of what I like about the game, and part of what I'm hoping we'll see more of, in the future, is dwarfs doing things on the own, like they do artifacts, now, only with more options, and in a wider "sphere" of activities.

Since this would be non-permanent, and probably not hugely valuable, atleast on a piece-by-piece basis, it would kindof be on the "low end" of things dwarfs would do without instructions, opposite from Artifacts.

I realize that not everyone is going to want their dwarfs to go running off on their own projects, thought, so it's not necessarily for everyone.

I don't know if it counts as off-topic though? Although it's certainly a different take on statues, it's also going off in a very different direction. I could probably move it to another post, if people would rather not have it over here.

[Footkerchief]

I don't know if it counts as off-topic though? Although it's certainly a different take on statues, it's also going off in a very different direction. I could probably move it to another post, if people would rather not have it over here.

I was thinking of making some kind of "Dwarven Proactiveness" thread, but I've pretty much said my piece here already.  If you have more ideas of that kind, though, I'd read it.