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Yes.

131 (51.2%)

No.

96 (37.5%)

I don't view either gender as having facial hair.

2 (0.8%)

What the hell is a dwarve?

11 (4.3%)

I think Toady said something about this one time, and I'm too spineless to make a wrong guess that might contradict DF canon.

16 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 256

[Chandrasekhar]

I'm honestly sort of sick of the assumption that dwarves are in all ways more masculine than humans, and elves are universally feminine.  There's plenty of ways that it's the other way around.

I mean, look at elven traits.  They're bloodthirsty and warlike - traditionally a masculine trait.  They live in the wilderness, no homemaking for them - again, masculine.  Physically, I tend to imagine them with more angular facial features in both genders, and I imagine their women as being slim and without any voluptuous curves.

On the other hand, dwarves have plenty of traditionally female traits.  Walking through a wall of fire to get their favorite pair of shoes?  Punishing people who have nothing to do with their current troubles?  Having a ridiculous attachment to cats?  I rest my case.

But more seriously, isn't it a bit sexist to associate elves with feminine traits to insult them?  After all, half of them are female in the first place.  If you want to insult them, compare them with liberals or something - at least no one here will be offended by that.

[LegoLord]

That's a very interesting point.  And, frankly, awesome.

[Metalax]

I couldn't pick any of the options on this poll. My view of dwarves can include both bearded and beardless females dependant on the world setting. For instance the dwarves of discworld having both genders with full beards entirely fits within their described setting. Similarly the dwarves from the 'looking for group' setting being beardless fits within that setting. I don't see either group as being less 'dwarven' than the other.

If you want to insult them, compare them with liberals or something - at least no one here will be offended by that.

Aside from the liberal crime squad. Who will shortly arrive to explain your error.

[Chandrasekhar]

If you want to insult them, compare them with liberals or something - at least no one here will be offended by that.

Aside from the liberal crime squad. Who will shortly arrive to explain your error.

Yes, I played that game for the first time last night.  The question here is, am I an arch-conservative that needs to be suppressed, or a sleeper that they're already in control of?

Also, a side side note.  My liberal slogan:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"EEEYEAAARRGH!!!"

I'm quite proud of it.

[Mordae]

Well Tolkien created the fantasy dwarves as we now know them and
he wrote that you can't tell a female dwarf from a male one.

[G-Flex]

Well, case closed! One guy wrote dwarves a certain way so we can't ever change them. You got it.

Also, Tolkien dwarves were pretty similar to late mythological dwarves anyway, as far as I know.

[Jackrabbit]

Not one guy. the guy. This man made modern fantasy. But really, it dosnt matter what another person thinks. It's ascii, you can imagine it any way you want. I'm sure as jell not gonna stop you

[Aqizzar]

Not one guy. the guy. This man made modern fantasy.

In other words, one guy wrote a successful fantasy novel series and scads of unimaginative writers and game designer since then have used blatant rip-offs of his setting.

What I'm saying is, Tolkein's description of things shouldn't be an argument for or against anything, except his own works and things directly based on them.

[G-Flex]

Not one guy. the guy. This man made modern fantasy. But really, it dosnt matter what another person thinks. It's ascii, you can imagine it any way you want. I'm sure as jell not gonna stop you

Erm, just because it's ASCII doesn't mean you can "imagine it any way you want". Sure, a deer is an ASCII "D" but that doesn't mean I can pretend it's a tentacle monster, because it sure as hell doesn't act like one and doesn't have the same parts. Also, she won't have a beard on whichever screen shows such data, and it'll never get pulled by an opponent in combat.

And who gives a damn if it's "THE guy"? I don't. So what if he made some alterations to dwarves that persist to this day, even in DF? It doesn't make a damn bit of difference. I'd rather Toady actually be creative with the way he makes the game rather than relying on old methods. Hell, if Tolkien hadn't acted creatively himself he wouldn't have "invented modern fantasy" to begin with.

[Jackrabbit]

Not one guy. the guy. This man made modern fantasy. But really, it dosnt matter what another person thinks. It's ascii, you can imagine it any way you want. I'm sure as jell not gonna stop you

Erm, just because it's ASCII doesn't mean you can "imagine it any way you want". Sure, a deer is an ASCII "D" but that doesn't mean I can pretend it's a tentacle monster, because it sure as hell doesn't act like one and doesn't have the same parts. Also, she won't have a beard on whichever screen shows such data, and it'll never get pulled by an opponent in combat.

And who gives a damn if it's "THE guy"? I don't. So what if he made some alterations to dwarves that persist to this day, even in DF? It doesn't make a damn bit of difference. I'd rather Toady actually be creative with the way he makes the game rather than relying on old methods. Hell, if Tolkien hadn't acted creatively himself he wouldn't have "invented modern fantasy" to begin with.

I was certainly hasty in calling tolken that. He didn't make modern fantasy really, he was just renowned. And I think you know what I mean when I say ASCII can be imagined in any way. I really think it obvious that a deer can't be a tentacle monster but if you imagine females wig beards then in your mind they have beards. Perhaps I explained I poorly? This is not really worth having an argument about.

[G-Flex]

You can only imagine them that way without consequence if beards have absolutely no impact on gameplay, which they very well might in the future at some point.

[Aqizzar]

You can only imagine them that way without consequence if beards have absolutely no impact on gameplay, which they very well might in the future at some point.

Exactly.  And likely the very next release.  Imaging dwarven women with beards is pointless when the presence/absence of beards has actual gameplay effects.

[G-Flex]

Yeah, and it's hardly even an issue considering how easy it is to mod them in. Toady even made it extra-easy for us.

[Shurikane]

Dwarven women are so dwarfy that their eyeballs have a beard.


THIS IS DWARF FORTRESS, DAMMIT!

[TheMirth]

Message: Your dwarf has evolved.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nothing but beard.