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Yes.

131 (51.2%)

No.

96 (37.5%)

I don't view either gender as having facial hair.

2 (0.8%)

What the hell is a dwarve?

11 (4.3%)

I think Toady said something about this one time, and I'm too spineless to make a wrong guess that might contradict DF canon.

16 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 256

[G-Flex]

Right.

If game-making were a democracy, games would be a lot shittier. Especially niche games like DF.

[ToonyMan]

Do YOU view female dwarves as having beards?


Stop trying to convert each other to the opposite side and just say what YOU think.

[Mech#4]

Yup, to me female dwarves have beards. Mostly because it's funny in my mind, but also because I see dwarves as a very masculine race, and thus to exaggerate that, as fantasy often does, all dwarves have beards.

If I can go so far, even the dwarf children would start growing their beard at around age 20 (read, 5 ish human age) since a beard is an indication of wisdom and stature in their society.

My opinion, I think a mix of Pratchett (All beards), Warhammer (Beard status) and DnD (Possibly all beards. I know it mentioned it in one of the books).

[G-Flex]

If I can go so far, even the dwarf children would start growing their beard at around age 20 (read, 5 ish human age)

The puberty in DF races doesn't scale like their maximum age does, though (and it probably shouldn't; there's no real reason why they should mature so slowly). DF dwarves are considered "adults" at age 12. A five-year-old human is likely very similar to a five-year-old dwarf.


I don't know if I view female dwarves as having beards. I definitely view them as being less "feminine" (i.e. less gender differentiation) by human terms, but I could go either way on them having beards. I'd like to say "yes" because having beards would make them more interesting and more different from humans, but aside from that, I have no real opinion.

[penguinofhonor]

If I can go so far, even the dwarf children would start growing their beard at around age 20 (read, 5 ish human age) since a beard is an indication of wisdom and stature in their society.

I thought that dwarves were born with beards.

Speaking of this, when do dwarves start growing their beards in the vanilla game? Can we tell through the raws Toady has released?

[Jackrabbit]

Look, if female dwarves didn't have beards, then people wouldn't be able to like female dwarves for their beards.  I mean, [PREFSTRING:beards]!  How can someone like a species for a feature only half of them have?!

I like women for there breasts.

And, if they have it, there intellegence, goodwill and friendlyness. But breasts are a definite plus.

Well too bad 'cause human women are the only real creatures whose women have those.  Other creatures have things that function like that, but they are different.  And you mean "their" not "there"; the latter is used for stuff like "over there."

as one grammar Nazi to another, nothing would forgive what i did. Man its hard to type with an ipod.

[Flaede]

That they should have beards.

Toady's opinion is the one that matters when it comes to adding things to vanilla DF.

And that is why this is not a suggestion thread. I can wax poetical about the beautiful braids of dwarven wimmins if I want, without it needing to be a call for it to be canonized, yes?

[Kay]

Dwarf women with beards is a tired and unfunny cliche. It's stupid. I understand the idea of other races having different standards of beauty, but I think it's different enough that they like stocky, muscly alchoholic women. I mean, the whole 'female beards' thing isn't a unique trait, it's a gimmick.

[G-Flex]

Why does it have to be a gimmick?

And who said it had to be funny, either?

[Kay]

Because so far, no one has proved otherwise. It started as a gimmick, and continues to be unless someone comes up with a terribly compelling reason why they exist. So far the only reason is 'Because it's fantasy/different!' and maybe that's enough for some people. Good for them. But I prefer to have an explanation for it. I'm not asking for anyone else to take my side, I'm just saying my peice. Feel free to ignore this post if you disagree, there is nothing you will say that will change my opinion, so it'd just waste both of our times, wouldn't it? My opinion didn't just pop up, it's been created and growing ever since the line "It's the beards." in The Two Towers.

I can understand female dwarves being masculine, in fact, I support it. But I think the beards is just a poor attempt at making the race different from the others beyond being short. As has been stated before, there are other ways to do it, physical or cultural.

Edit: Although, if you are into dwarf women with beards, consider this quote... "Like the beard, gives me something to [Pelvic thrust] hang on to!"

[Aqizzar]

Because so far, no one has proved otherwise. It started as a gimmick, and continues to be unless someone comes up with a terribly compelling reason why they exist. So far the only reason is 'Because it's fantasy/different!' and maybe that's enough for some people. Good for them. But I prefer to have an explanation for it.

That's literally like asking why parrots should be the colors they are.  Or if you want a fantasy example, complaining that hydras have any given number of heads.

As for me, I don'think of it as a gimmick.

I don't see dwarves as 'human' at all.  They're dwarves, with dwarven traits, dwarven minds, and dwarven looks.

I'll probably wind up modding them even more myself.  Give women beards, then all dwarves grey/blue skin or something, and stones in their organs.  And make elves hollow like birds.

[Kay]

That's literally like asking why parrots should be the colors they are.

No it isn't. It isn't uncommon for birds to be strange colours. It is however, uncommon for humanoid women to have beards. Sure it happens, but it isn't a common trait.

I was reading something recently that I thought could work. Perhaps different subraces of Dwarves display this characteristic? Perhaps the dwarves that were in northern lands developed more body hair to deal with the colder climates? I could understand and accept that, because at least that gives room for both types. There could also be dwarves in hotter climates with no hair whatsoever for all you freakazoids out there.

[Flaede]

And that is why this is not a suggestion thread. I can wax poetical about the beautiful braids of dwarven wimmins if I want

And speaking of which...
now I have.

[Aqizzar]

It isn't uncommon for birds to be strange colours. It is however, uncommon for humanoid women to have beards. Sure it happens, but it isn't a common trait.

Well there you go.  You want bearded dwarven women to not be a gimmick?  Don't think of dwarves as a reflection of humans.  Yes, it is uncommon for human women to have beards.  Dwarves are not humans, end of problem.

I was reading something recently that I thought could work. Perhaps different subraces of Dwarves display this characteristic? Perhaps the dwarves that were in northern lands developed more body hair to deal with the colder climates?

I was going to suggest such a thing actually.  It is a bit cold underground (58F constant if I remember), and dwarves gravitate to high mountains anyway.  Combine this with the dwarven maternal instinct to keep children in hand for their infancy, and you have a biological imperative for dwarven women to sport 'excessive' hair.

And bald, leathery desert dwarves are a great idea.

[Kay]

And that is why this is not a suggestion thread. I can wax poetical about the beautiful braids of dwarven wimmins if I want

I don't recall ever stating it was a suggestion. I was trying to rationalise what cannot be rationalised.

Also, in regards to Aqizzar, I didn't state they were a reflection of humans, I was pointing out that they were humanoid, which they are.

That aside, I actually do like the idea of subraces with varying hair. I tend to ramble a bit about races and stuff due to the fact that I enjoy world building. And I mean, everything down to politics and nationalities.

I never meant to turn this into an argument, but it is my fault for my need to defend my reasoning if it is called into question. I hope you understand?