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[LegoLord]

So why is it that there are so many community forts that start out interesting enough, but then they just stop because no one is giving any feedback, but then other forts, like Nist Akath or Migurist, get really popular when they start out, and have people posting feedback just about every other day?

[Jim Groovester]

For Migrursut, it's popular because of its phenomenal story, interesting characters, constant updates, and perhaps most importantly, community interaction. Heavy Flak does his best to include the readers' characters in the story as much as possible, and takes ideas from his readers and runs with them.

I would say that it is the community fortress.

As for why others fail, well. Most forts are about seven dwarves striking out on their own to build a fortress. The authors try to make them epic and amazing and interesting, and have mixed levels of success. But I can only read so many stories that pull on the same emotional strings before I get bored.

And not everyone has the commitment to make a long lasting community fortress.

[Mephansteras]

A lot of forts also die because the author quits updating for whatever reason. Could be that they stopped playing, or the save got corrupted, or whatever. But I know there have been a number of really good, popular stories that stopped just because the author more or less vanished.

[LegoLord]

Hmm.  Well, I imagine it might be easier to include readers' characters into the story if there were more of them.  To use my own fort as an example, I know people are reading it.  I can see the number of views.  But only three people have asked for dwarves, and only one consistently provides comments (not to say that's what one should expect after every single update of course).  My story has only just started; surely Nist Akath and Migurist went through that time of just starting up as well, but they seemed popular from the start.

[Haika]

I wonder about this question a lot myself. And I agree that it takes a lot of constant and regular updates to get a story going and keep it going. Aside from that I think it takes an interesting story and a good plot, that's a little different than all the others going on. You have to find something to stand out, and make people notice.

I don't know how many of you are reading my own community fort, but I've only got a handful of people, and don't always get any comments. But I still feel strongly that I should keep things going, and while I still find myself falling into the journal style, I do want to try and approach the story ability that I read from others. And I hope many more read and enjoy my story, even if it's after the fact.

[Rysith]

I'm not really sure. I've got Lanternwebs, and I know that people keep reading it by views, as LegoLord mentioned. I'd probably keep writing it even if nobody read it: Trying to fit everything into a story is making it more interesting, and does things like make artifacts more than just chunks of wealth, will make the Hammerer more than just an annoyance, and so on.

That said, I suspect that the popular stories appear popular from the beginning because you can read the first N weeks of them in a single shot, rather than waiting. I'd guess that popular stories need, as necessary but not sufficient qualities, regular updates and a sense of character.

By "sense of character" I mean that the fortress has to give the feeling that it is something other than just another 7 dwarves. Nist Akath started with being ridiculously doomed, and continued on the strength of Ironblood. Migrurist has the community interaction. RotFC had excellent writing. I'd say that the good writing is part of it, but Nist Akath didn't start out with particularly good writing, so I'm leaving that out.

Basically, I think that the story needs to be different enough from what you have tried with your dwarves to make you want to read it, and the story needs to be well-enough described that you can figure out what is going on in it. Then, with those met, it has to be noticed by enough people to become popular, which isn't really something that you can control.

[LegoLord]

Okay.
So can anyone say what got them interested in certain stories?  It seems like it might help writers with their stories if they had some idea how to get people to take a look, to "hook them in."  Naturally, that wouldn't necessarily keep the stories good or interesting or even going.  But it would not be a bad thing to know.

[Jamini]

The lifetime of a successful community fort in Bay12.

1. Birth. - First, someone needs to be interested enough in some facet of DF to write a story/community fort. Namely, the author needs to have something to write about: Absurdity, poor luck, hilarity, (il)logic, ambition, an unusual quirk, or an idea for a plot/storyline. Many community forts die because they simply are not interesting to their author.

2. Youth. - This period of a community fort's lifetime/story is the most tenuous and least rewarding for any story. Many of the more popular fortresses in the community games section were not so popular when the fortress was under a year old... or even when they reach their second page (That would be the fourth/fifth for you folks with the standard post display settings).

The author needs to care for their story during this vulnerable time, when very few people have read the story and reader comments are few and far between. People simply do not want to read a short or poor story, and a lack of (recent) posts is indicative of a rarely updated or poorly-written tale. If you keep you're thread updated regularly and interesting to read, more people will pop in to watch and sign up to join your fortress in ever-increasing numbers. I also must stress: You as the author need to communicate and respond to your readers. They will love the attention you give them and keep coming back for more. You're not a first-rate bestselling author (or if you are, pretend you are not!), and your readers are not scattered across the globe and internet. Spending time with your readers and learning what they like, or would like to see, can improve your writing and enjoyment with your story overall.

Out of everyone who reads your story, eventually you will garner a group of loyal followers who enjoy your story enough to check in on a regular basis for an update (be it daily, bidaily, weekly, or greater). As you get closer and closer to maturity expect more people to post in your thread expressing their likes, dislikes, and calling for participation. During this time, I also cannot stress enough: You need to talk with your readerbase. Developing a go

3. Maturity.

Once a story starts getting into 3-4 (8-20) pages the author is normally into the full swing of things. At this point you can step back and take things at a slower pace without causing a full-blown panic over a late update. This doesn't mean you can neglect your thread, but at this point short of totally disappearing for weeks on end, you can normally pick things up with a good-sized update and expect people to respond. Very few stories get this far, and those that do normally survive onward to Old Age and Death barring the death or incapacitation of the author.

Example: Ulolgeshud, The Last Fortress

4. Old Age.

In this stage of your stories life it has gone above and beyond what you expected of it, and has created a wonderful artifact that menaces with spikes of text and is banded in sentences and paragraphs. Like a dwarf (or good wine) your tale only gets stronger and better with age, as plot intricacies are revealed and some of the smaller climaxes in the tale have passed. By now you know where you want to go with it, and are halfway there already: marking your passing with your personal flair (it could be a new thing, or something developed while you were writing).

Example:  Nist Akath

5. Death

All living things die, the same applies to written works as well. Eventually you have reached your final climax, the big reveal, demons overtake the world, an elite goblin axeman thrashes your entire fort, or your fort tantrum spirals and is slaughtered by a pikemaster-cum-cheesemaker with a mooing cow chip in his shoulder. The big thing to rememer when the end comes: Let it come! Finishing a good work at the right time can create a true classic, something to be remembered forever in the Hall of Legends as a true work of art ... at least until a random server wipe kills everything in the bay12forums forever.

Example: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25242.100

[Kuli]

To me, a good community fort has a personal touch to it, something that individualizes it from every other story.  Migrursut was pretty generic at first, but then it took on a life of its own with things like the Zefonist sect, Aryn's megalomania, Dodik's brothel, and so forth.

If you're writing a community fort just to have readers, or as some would put it, to be "internet famous" then don't bother.  Write a community fort story because you enjoy writing it.  If you're having fun, then maybe others will come along to join in the fun.

[ToonyMan]

Absolutely, if you enjoy writing it you shouldn't care if other people don't read it.  Don't make what you do a chore, but an adventure!  Take my story DeathQuest for an example, I'm not the best writer in the world, but I try to be funny sometimes (like when my captain of the guard got a spear stuck in his head) and I have a good time.

When you first write a story it can be hard to get over that hurdle.  I honestly hate only having 7 dwarves, it's so slow.  I know though, that I will soon have 200 dwarves and an awesome mountainhome!  You can't make a story popular, because YOU can't decide that, the reader have to enjoy it.  Don't get frustrated because nobody reads your story.  If you enjoy writing, then do it!




EDIT:  Woah, I wrote more than 1 sentence.   

[Snuffs]

I'd say that everyone has been giving good advice so far.  I haven't really written anything for this forum, but I do check here every day for updates on the stories I'm following.  And they have nailed the biggest point: it needs something to make it personal.

The reason that I start reading something is that I find something interesting about it.  I've read the same seven dwarves founding a fortress a hundred times, now I need something more.  I usually just close the window and don't come back if I see that sort of intro, no matter how much metafiction is pumped into the "strike the Earth" dialog.  But, if the fort has something unique to it from the start, I'll keep reading.  All Dwarves are Bastards (But Some Less Than Others) includes one mini-challenge or caveat to each fort, and promises to link all of them together with an overarching plot.  Deathquest is played with the orc mod. Sebshoskeshan has the metaplot of the archaeologists uncovering the ancient fortress.  The Axe of Authority has the LEGO mod, and it also jumped right into a 100-dwarf fortress rather than working the usual slow way up from 7.  The Birth of an Artifact is especially cool because it forgoes the game aspect entirely, and just comes from the author's mind.

For me, bad spelling and grammar are huge turnoffs.  If multiple things are misspelled or (shudder) 'chatspeak' is used, I very often stop reading then and there.  It is fine, of course, if there are only a few misspellings in an otherwise good story, or things are misspelled purposefully for an adequately plot-defined reason.  And there is also the rare case that the 'hook' or general storytelling is good enough that I endure the poor spelling and keep reading.

A lot of it also has to do with my knowledge of the author at this point, too.  If I recognize the name next to the thread I'm more likely to take a look.  So participation in community and succession forts can also help garner readers.

Looking back on this, Legolord, I guess that the only real advice I'm giving is "keep doing what you're doing."  I read and enjoy your stories, I just don't comment because I prefer to be a passive observer.  I don't know what kind of advice I'd give to get more people to comment, though. 

[LegoLord]

Okay, thanks y'all.  I greatly appreciate the advice.

[ToonyMan]

Heh, I have alot of spelling mistakes in mine.   


Never lose your sense of direction.


You can't do everything!  Try to stick to one thing that is the purpose of the story.  What are you trying to explain?  Is it insanity?  Desperation?  Internal?  External?  BLAHBLAH?

Always one to criticize I say this is what DeathQuest's problem is.  I have no idea what I'm doing.  I need to give feelings to my dwarves, make them look like there situation is hopeless.  Ugh.  YOU'LL SEE!! NEXT UPDATE WILL BE DIFFERENT!!