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[Pilsu]

Kusanagi was renamed "Grasscutter Sword" after being pressed into service as a lawnmower

Yeah, forging the legend probably had nothing to do with the whole "can control the bleeding wind" part. The sword was obviously special, even if the moron swiped it without knowing what it can do

In LOTR, we have Bilbo and Sting, and a host of other weapons that were given one name at their forging but another equally famous name by their victims.

The Sting that glows when orcs are near?

Reading at a quick list of the LotR artifacts, just about all of them are magical or special in some regard, if for nothing else then their material. I don't see any +Wambler's Banes+. Notable exceptions like Legolas' long knife which seemingly was only mentioned descriptively, not because people think about it at night. Not that I read the book but the wiki article implies no real fame


Zulfiqar was named "Spinecleaver" after being used to cut someone in half.[/quote]

Gotta give you that one, there's no mention of magic beyond the few people that used it. Largely Mohammad

In Christian mythology, the Holy Spear was just an ordinary spear that happened to get used for stabbing Jesus. 

Gotta give you that one too, even if Longinus himself is entirely an imaginary figure

"What? Someone stabbed him!" Well duh but read the story, it's obviously fabricated to suit their agenda. His name probably wasn't even Longinus, that was simply the equivalent of "Jack Smith" in modern english. It's a peculiar myth where the wielder is entirely interchangeable but the weapon attains status from the blood

Got a legend where the weapon in question isn't elevated to artifact status without a (religious) power behind it wishing to immortalize it for propaganda reasons? I don't object to civs naming the weapons of very notable people to perpetuate hero worship to serve their political agenda but I really don't want to see even damn alligator slayer woodcutter have Incestbellows the Butchery of Slaying, -Bronze Battle Axe-. Killing a megabeast isn't enough in itself to earn a weapon a fancy name, unless you want 12 "Titan Bane"s and 11 "Dragon Slayer"s whenever some kobold bites a Colossus' leg off 


TL;DR either the named weapon was already magical or was given a name/invented on the spot specifically so it could be used as a relic by the powers that be. Typically the weapon/item itself isn't even the original, the owner/wielder just claimed it was to give himself a false sense of importance. That'd be fairly interesting to see in the legends, the dwarven king having a rusty piece of an old hoe reforged into a sword claiming it to be a part of the legendary Lizardbane that struck down a god or another in the age of myth so people would stop mocking his short silky smooth beard

[Mikademus]

Being used to slay a magical creature, like a dragon, wizard or Hidden Fun Entity, could potentially confer magical properties to a weapon. Conversely, a weapon might be "blessed" by a deity because of its role in slaying something. I don't think this should happen every time a weapon becomes named, however, or even that it should happen very often at all.

Not only weapons. F.i. in Norse mythology this guy dug a hole and squatted there until a drake slithered over him. He cut it and bathed in its blood and gained invulnerability. Point is, there is mythological precedence for both items and people gaining powers from encountering (usually violently and fatally) magical, mystical or divine beings.

[Pilsu]

Point is, there is mythological precedence for both items and people gaining powers from encountering (usually violently and fatally) magical, mystical or divine beings.

Do you want every damn +copper short sword+ turning into a magical artifact because someone at some point poked at a mundane fire man with it?

Just because the game has creatures more exotic than wolves doesn't mean everything has to make no sense. I can see dwarves telling stories and generally bullshitting eachother with made up events like this but it actually happening is extremely clichéd and boring

[chaoticag]

Sigurd, or Sigfried gained that power.

I think that if blades ever do get enchanted, it should be after the magic arc rolls around.

Also, I doubt Mohammed ever used that sword, although he participated in the front lines of battle.

Namming should also happen at random, say a sword was forged the night of a meteor shower, or if a sword was dropped in the middle of a desert only to strike water, but that would be a bit of a stretch.

[Footkerchief]

Yeah, forging the legend probably had nothing to do with the whole "can control the bleeding wind" part. The sword was obviously special, even if the moron swiped it without knowing what it can do

The Sting that glows when orcs are near?

Of course those weapons were special from the beginning.  However, this is what you said:

In your average myth, weapons do not gain status, they're made with it. The legend belongs to the wielder, not the weapon unless the weapon's nature was critical to the event itself

Sting and Kusanagi clearly gained additional status after being made, even though their natures were not critical to the events that led to this gain of status.  That is, Kusanagi's power to control the wind was irrelevant to its ability to cut grass, which even a dull sword could do; Sting's Orc-glow had no effect on its ability to stab spiders, which again could have been done with any blade.

[bjlong]

Got a legend where the weapon in question isn't elevated to artifact status without a (religious) power behind it wishing to immortalize it for propaganda reasons?

First: Please be a little less troll-esque in your wording. Some of us (me) do have religious beliefs. Kthanks?

Second: You know that this is the reason half of the myths were made, right? "We want to tell our children about events long past/God. I know, let's make memorable stories!" Though you bring up an interesting point about the myths: either the blade was used to kill/wound something especially notable, or the person wielding it was already pretty notable. Perhaps we should take this into account?

Also of note: Narsil (later Andúril) from LotR. No mention of very special powers, but it was treated almost religiously after it cut the ring from Sauron's finger. There are a few other weapons in LotR like that, I think. They probably wouldn't be considered things like "blades of god-slaying," but rather "mighty swords" perhaps giving hidden stat boosts to the wielders.

[RantingRodent]

I think it's important not to become fixated on the idea that civs name the sword at the moment of action, or that the sword gains powers at that moment.  All I am saying is that the WorldGen engine will decide that the sword is special at that time.  To be clear:

Kobold kills Titan with random iron short sword.  WorldGen decides that this weapon is actually Titansbane, originally forged by the God So-and-So and stolen from a temple that this Kobold happened to have visitted at some point.

The weapon was always special, it just didn't matter until something special was done with it.  At this point, WorldGen retroactively comes up with a special history for the weapon.  This ensures that all special weapons have actually done something noteworthy.

I am more interested in this idea than I am in weapons that have gained powers through use.

[Demonic Gophers]

Point is, there is mythological precedence for both items and people gaining powers from encountering (usually violently and fatally) magical, mystical or divine beings.

Do you want every damn +copper short sword+ turning into a magical artifact because someone at some point poked at a mundane fire man with it?

Just because the game has creatures more exotic than wolves doesn't mean everything has to make no sense. I can see dwarves telling stories and generally bullshitting eachother with made up events like this but it actually happening is extremely clichéd and boring

There can be the potential for weapons to gain additional properties from violent contact with powerful beings without every blade used to fight any creature that isn't found on Earth becoming a 'Sword of unspeakable Power!!1!'.  If you don't think this should ever happen, argue against that, instead of just declaring that it shouldn't be commonplace.

[Heron TSG]

I dunno, I think it'd be hilarious to have your -Copper Short Sword-'s suddenly turn into "Ickygoop, The Removal of Bowels" whenever you kill a slugman by disembowelment.

[BonSequitur]

Gotta give you that one too, even if Longinus himself is entirely an imaginary figure

"What? Someone stabbed him!" Well duh but read the story, it's obviously fabricated to suit their agenda. His name probably wasn't even Longinus, that was simply the equivalent of "Jack Smith" in modern english. It's a peculiar myth where the wielder is entirely interchangeable but the weapon attains status from the blood

Got a legend where the weapon in question isn't elevated to artifact status without a (religious) power behind it wishing to immortalize it for propaganda reasons? I don't object to civs naming the weapons of very notable people to perpetuate hero worship to serve their political agenda but I really don't want to see even damn alligator slayer woodcutter have Incestbellows the Butchery of Slaying, -Bronze Battle Axe-. Killing a megabeast isn't enough in itself to earn a weapon a fancy name, unless you want 12 "Titan Bane"s and 11 "Dragon Slayer"s whenever some kobold bites a Colossus' leg off 

We're talking about myths. Their veracity is irrelevant to the discussion; the point is, there are myths about weapons that become famous or magical through use, rather than by being made special.

TL;DR either the named weapon was already magical or was given a name/invented on the spot specifically so it could be used as a relic by the powers that be. Typically the weapon/item itself isn't even the original, the owner/wielder just claimed it was to give himself a false sense of importance. That'd be fairly interesting to see in the legends, the dwarven king having a rusty piece of an old hoe reforged into a sword claiming it to be a part of the legendary Lizardbane that struck down a god or another in the age of myth so people would stop mocking his short silky smooth beard

So basically you didn't read what someone else wrote, then claimed that it conforms to your preconceived notions. Gotcha.

Anyway, I'm not advocating weapons get named all the damn time. It should be a relatively rare event, like weapons used to strike down civ leaders (Under especially gory circumstances, e.g. no weapons gaining special status because they got the last poke at an almost-dead demon) or megabeasts (Once megabeasts are more epic than carp). I'm not even advocating that world gen track every weapon used to kill an important world figure.

Artifacts, however, being "special" by nature should have their history tracked... "Lintassassinated is a microcline hatch cover. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It menaces with spikes of chicken bone and is encircled with bands of carp leather. In Galena of 225, Lintassassinated was created at Skiffdefenestrated. In Granite of 226, Lintassassinated was gifted to Urist McNoble, Baron of Skiffdefenestrated.

[MastaODisasta]

I like the idea of having weapons that were involved in important events being tracked through the world creation process.  Although I think that within the game world they should take on a more ceremonial purpose if they don't have any special powers.  So if a character used a certain sword to kill a king of a rival faction or a particularly nasty megabeast it might be on display in the castle or given to a player as a gift, not so much for its quality but for the sentimental value.  Maybe certain weapons could act as relics and be said to heal people or something of that nature (although because the weapon is an ordinary sword, it wouldn't actually do anything).  People would come from all over to see the weapon that Urist McDwarf used to kill the demon So and so.

It would be interesting so see this with other objects as well.  Like the bones of a heroic dwarf being put on display and being said to have special powers.  Things like this would flesh out the religious aspects a bit, where the bodies of dwarven saints would be popular tourist attractions.

[i2amroy]

I think it's important not to become fixated on the idea that civs name the sword at the moment of action, or that the sword gains powers at that moment.  All I am saying is that the WorldGen engine will decide that the sword is special at that time.  To be clear:

Kobold kills Titan with random iron short sword.  WorldGen decides that this weapon is actually Titansbane, originally forged by the God So-and-So and stolen from a temple that this Kobold happened to have visitted at some point.

The weapon was always special, it just didn't matter until something special was done with it.  At this point, WorldGen retroactively comes up with a special history for the weapon.  This ensures that all special weapons have actually done something noteworthy.

I am more interested in this idea than I am in weapons that have gained powers through use.

I agree with Rodent here, just have the worldgen engine create a backhistory for a legendary weapon at the moment it is used in something special, this entire history would be fictional, with all names being randomly generated. Because look at how some of the names in legends change as time goes on until no one can tell who created the legend. Some legends are known to have three or four different names for the hero, depending where in the world you hear it. Or look at the King Arthur legends, if he was a real person, historians have come up with about four different people that he could have been. This means that you could randomly generate names in the weapons history, even if those people don't ever exist again. That would make it so that when the history was generated it didn't interfere with current history or have to edit it.

[Footkerchief]

I agree with Rodent here, just have the worldgen engine create a backhistory for a legendary weapon at the moment it is used in something special, this entire history would be fictional, with all names being randomly generated. Because look at how some of the names in legends change as time goes on until no one can tell who created the legend. Some legends are known to have three or four different names for the hero, depending where in the world you hear it. Or look at the King Arthur legends, if he was a real person, historians have come up with about four different people that he could have been. This means that you could randomly generate names in the weapons history, even if those people don't ever exist again. That would make it so that when the history was generated it didn't interfere with current history or have to edit it.

I don't think the history of weapons should be made up from whole cloth.  Once a weapon gets used for something important, it's easy for the game to track its involvement in other events, even if its prior history is lost to time.  Once you have the history of the weapon, you can erode or distort that history in selective, meaningful ways so that you end up with a nice blend of truth and misinformation/anachronism/propaganda.

[i2amroy]

I wasn't saying to generate 200+ years of fake history for the item, I was talking maybe a couple of events. For example, even though some legendary weapon was really forged 10 years ago by some backwood smith and then bought by the hero when his old sword broke, it would start to pick up rumors that it was forged by the god of thunder at the beginning of time and then given to the hero. I was just saying that the gods and people who occur in these 3-6 events could be generated from the cloth, because often times in stories the names of the legendary smith are either made up at some point, so distorted it could be hundreds of different people, or they are left unnamed. After these few 'generated' events, then the game could track and selectively distort/change the history in a meaningful way.

[Felblood]

I like the idea of weapons of note being created at world-gen, and given distinctive names, but I wouldn't think that that should automatically give them magical powers, or even make them artifacts.

Perhaps, once magic is implemented, flashy enhancements can only be added to weapons with a related noteworthy history. So, to make a flaming sword, you have to strike the killing blow on a dragon with it, or something like that. It gives adventurers something to quest for, without seriously amping the power level of the average fortress.

It should be possible to get the true history of the weapon with a little work, since not being able to would undermine the Legends system.

It's interesting that someone mentioned Narsil, as it did gain properties from it's history. It was part of a matched set of two black steel swords, forged by a mad elven swordsmith. Narsil was given away freely, and so it was destined for greatness. An army swore an oath by the sword, but later broke the oath and where cursed by the gods, to live as undead until a bearer of that sword called on them to fulfill the oath again.

The matching sword was stolen, and so it was surrounded by tragedy. Incest murder and suicide followed it around until it was finally broken in obscurity.

Sauron was also able to corrupt the elven rings by touching them, so that they would work like the lesser rings of power he had forged himself.