Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[SirHoneyBadger]

I am ok with ropes being used by creatures without "grasp", at least for some time. Another solution would be to allow up-down stairways to be constructed under other stairs.

I hope creatures with tentacles will be able to use rope ladders. Maybe even have a preference for them over stairs?

[Footkerchief]

In regards to underground plant growth, is it limited by layers or mud availability now?

Judging from this quote, it'll still depend on both -- they have to grow in mud, and they must have a layer to get spores from:

Toady, are there still plants that grow underground like towercaps in the current version?  Also, will they still grow on muddied stone underground, or will they need real soil?  Do they just grow in the open layers, or will they grow anywhere underground?

There are still underground plants, and there are areas that start with them.  I haven't placed soil tiles deep underground, so they grow in mud.  I don't think it knows how to pull an underground plant population outside of a layer.  At this point things like tree farms aren't quite as important as before, since there are lots down there that will regrow, but it should probably learn how to extend to other subterranean layers at some point.  There are a few little issues like knowing where it should be drawing the spore populations from -- if you are in between a cavern and a magma layer, it should probably know that the cavern layer is always the source, but if you are in between two cavern layers but really really close to the upper one, it probably shouldn't give you spores from down below.  Perhaps an upper default is the best.

[Shoku]

That's kind of the trouble with constructions though. You've got to be standing on the tile you want to place them or be just under the floor-layer, meaning practically on the tile. Basically all of those kinds of things work like that so writing an exception to do a hardcoded behavior backwards might be so much trouble that he might as well do a more complete rope ladder.

Actually, that's not true. Bridges and hatch covers are built without standing on the tile. Walls, fortifications, statues, pillars, all are built without standing on the tile.

Anything that blocks movement or permits movement is built next to the tile. Yeah, rope ladders are an exception, but there are already quite a few exceptions in the game, including building staircases over open space from an adjacent ledge.

My words didn't exactly match the description if you want to be picky but having access to the tile you want to build something means being essentially at that height. *It could be that all of these instances just check a + around the specified tile with the center being first and then the side preferences we are familiar with.

The issue for downward stairs is that you can't be essentially standing below the tile you're on- the floor puts you at a certain height and up stairs bump you up but there's no hanging off the edge of a down-stair.

but developers tend to have these list of things they know they need to tackle sooner or later and when a good excuse comes along to tackle them, they sometimes jump at it.

So you're taking my point and calling it your own now?

If he's been planning on it and wants to put in the effort then we both agree that it probably wouldn't be worth it to just do reverse-stairs, right?

I am ok with ropes being used by creatures without "grasp", at least for some time. Another solution would be to allow up-down stairways to be constructed under other stairs.

I hope creatures with tentacles will be able to use rope ladders. Maybe even have a preference for them over stairs?

If the tentacles are long enough they could just grab their way up places that didn't even have those. I imagine there's be less pathfinding trouble with that because fliers already behave like that but limited distance behaviors might hit a lot of the demolition pathfinding troubles.

[Rystic]

Personally, I hope rope is limited to creatures with grasp. I can't wait for Stray Kitten (Tame) cancels Climb Rope: Too injured.

[GlyphGryph]

Personally, I'm hoping for a climb skill, and endurance penalties. (normal failed checks mean they just have to stop and pause for a moment, major failed checks mean they fall)

Because watching dwarves plummet to the ground after just reaching of the top of the 23 z-level rope ladder is fun! Especially when he's being pursued by tentacle demons, and the lever at the top is what he was going for because it drops the rope ladder into the abyss... oh well.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I already suggested rope ladders as these sort of constructions that can be activated, and on activation they extend 'virtual stairs', all the way to a floor or a limited length down. They would essentially be 2x1 buildings akin to a pump, but with one edge hanging over empty space (or water. or magma). They can also be non-retractable, which would kill some potential applications but would simplify their development.

[zwei]

Personally, I'm hoping for a climb skill, and endurance penalties. (normal failed checks mean they just have to stop and pause for a moment, major failed checks mean they fall)

Because watching dwarves plummet to the ground after just reaching of the top of the 23 z-level rope ladder is fun! Especially when he's being pursued by tentacle demons, and the lever at the top is what he was going for because it drops the rope ladder into the abyss... oh well.

death race:

20 z-levels tall rope over dining hall/meeting hall/ with lever that deconstructs it on top, add 'P'ull task and cheer for survivor as well as for casualties and newly decorated dining room!

[mendonca]

Personally, I'm hoping for a climb skill, and endurance penalties. (normal failed checks mean they just have to stop and pause for a moment, major failed checks mean they fall)

Because watching dwarves plummet to the ground after just reaching of the top of the 23 z-level rope ladder is fun! Especially when he's being pursued by tentacle demons, and the lever at the top is what he was going for because it drops the rope ladder into the abyss... oh well.

death race:

20 z-levels tall rope over dining hall/meeting hall/ with lever that deconstructs it on top, add 'P'ull task and cheer for survivor as well as for casualties and newly decorated dining room!

Well the dabbling surgeons are going to need to be kept busy,they could be learning anatomy by filing the correct bits of each dwarf in the correct coffin ...

[sweitx]

Ooh, new thoughts on rope ladder.
Maybe it can be implemented as a well kind of thing?
Where the well is a "down stair case".  And can be queued up with task to "add/remove rope ladder segment".  Each time you add a rope ladder segment, it can extend further down z-level.

[smjjames]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned what toady said as far as the pathing issues with excluding some critters from the rope ladder. Namely, the pet forbidden door issue. Lemme go find that quote.....

[Shoku]

Personally, I hope rope is limited to creatures with grasp. I can't wait for Stray Kitten (Tame) cancels Climb Rope: Too injured.

Well with how most of us get rid of cat vermin delivery cancellation spam they'd have no trouble using the ladders anyway.

[smjjames]

Personally, I hope rope is limited to creatures with grasp. I can't wait for Stray Kitten (Tame) cancels Climb Rope: Too injured.

Well with how most of us get rid of cat vermin delivery cancellation spam they'd have no trouble using the ladders anyway.

*pictures cats swinging themselves upwards by their mouth* lol.

Anyways, found the relevant quote:

rope-climbing animal fixes

It's more of a technical matter.  I know how to check for grasps, etc., but it doesn't matter.  There will be catastrophic lag if animals can't climb ropes, since the game can't handle path restrictions that don't affect everybody (locked doors, etc.), once you are down to dwarf-style movement.  The sorts of general, sweeping pathfinding rewrites which will need to happen eventually but which are incredibly time-consuming are the only fix here.

Despite all the discussion about graspers, it's a very difficult issue to deal with because of pathing.

[Cardinal]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned what toady said as far as the pathing issues with excluding some critters from the rope ladder. Namely, the pet forbidden door issue. Lemme go find that quote.....

Somebody mentioned the performance hit a couple pages back.

[smjjames]

Regarding the caverns and what Footkerchief quoted a page or two ago, I didn't know that they were reduced in size somewhat from that old screenshot, but heck, I'd rather have natural looking caverns than the labrynth of one tile wide tunnels we get now for caves.

[Lancensis]

After taking a few new drawing classes I've come to realize that my mind actually doesn't visualize in very high quality. You can also see it by directing yourself while dreaming- details like writing just aren't there for me and the textures are so blurred even things like buttons on a remote are only ok if I don't look.
As such I've had a hard time not lucid dreaming since I started noticing it.

My brain's got enough memory to hold a pretty screenshot easily enough but it's easy to make a single frame look great in photoshop but rendering something like that takes a lot more power.

But I guess if you're willing to not ever look for details that aren't the first things you notice it doesn't ever come up. Actually it's probably really hard for most people to look for things they wouldn't usually look for first in dreams and mental images.

Did Shoku just give his own brain a bad review?