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[Synzig]

A seedless, biomeless, non-processable plant

Wouldn't that be some kind of imaginary plant that wouldn't exist anywhere because it has no biome?

Yes, that's the point.  If you check what I quoted, we were talking about how to implement loaves of bread.  They'd be "plants" that would only be produced via a kitchen reaction.

Well would unprocessable make it unable to be cooked or made into alcohol?
Because I'm fairly sure you can do that with bread.

Go about it the dwarvenly way and make forge bread from steel at a smelter.  Problem solved.

[Jordix]

Sorry if this is mentioned somewhere, but I couldn't find it... Any idea if the new version will be compatible with current saved games? I'm assuming it won't, with so many new stuff being added, but it'd be nice to know for sure.

[G-Flex]

It won't.

[Sysice]

The entire points of why this took so long is because he wanted to group all the save-breaking things into one release.

Do you know the muffin man?

The muffin man?

The muffin man!

[Christes]

It won't.

Heh, that no wasn't nearly emphatic enough.  This one will break just about everything, apparently.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Do you know the muffin man?

The muffin man?

The muffin man!

Who lives in Drury Lane?

[Spiders Everywhere]

This came up before:

Toady, are there still plants that grow underground like towercaps in the current version?  Also, will they still grow on muddied stone underground, or will they need real soil?  Do they just grow in the open layers, or will they grow anywhere underground?

There are still underground plants, and there are areas that start with them.  I haven't placed soil tiles deep underground, so they grow in mud.  I don't think it knows how to pull an underground plant population outside of a layer.  At this point things like tree farms aren't quite as important as before, since there are lots down there that will regrow, but it should probably learn how to extend to other subterranean layers at some point.  There are a few little issues like knowing where it should be drawing the spore populations from -- if you are in between a cavern and a magma layer, it should probably know that the cavern layer is always the source, but if you are in between two cavern layers but really really close to the upper one, it probably shouldn't give you spores from down below.  Perhaps an upper default is the best.

There's been more underground work since then, though, so maybe that's changed.

So am I understanding it correctly that you'll get stuff growing in your fortress's soil and mud when you break into a cavern with plants, like how it happens now when you discover underground water? I guess he hadn't decided exactly how it'd work he wrote that, but it sounds like there'll be some kind of plant spreading.

Fixing the infinite mud thingy may make irrigation significant again, hmmm...

[smjjames]

This came up before:

Toady, are there still plants that grow underground like towercaps in the current version?  Also, will they still grow on muddied stone underground, or will they need real soil?  Do they just grow in the open layers, or will they grow anywhere underground?

There are still underground plants, and there are areas that start with them.  I haven't placed soil tiles deep underground, so they grow in mud.  I don't think it knows how to pull an underground plant population outside of a layer.  At this point things like tree farms aren't quite as important as before, since there are lots down there that will regrow, but it should probably learn how to extend to other subterranean layers at some point.  There are a few little issues like knowing where it should be drawing the spore populations from -- if you are in between a cavern and a magma layer, it should probably know that the cavern layer is always the source, but if you are in between two cavern layers but really really close to the upper one, it probably shouldn't give you spores from down below.  Perhaps an upper default is the best.

There's been more underground work since then, though, so maybe that's changed.

So am I understanding it correctly that you'll get stuff growing in your fortress's soil and mud when you break into a cavern with plants, like how it happens now when you discover underground water? I guess he hadn't decided exactly how it'd work he wrote that, but it sounds like there'll be some kind of plant spreading.

Fixing the infinite mud thingy may make irrigation significant again, hmmm...

It makes sense anyway because irrigation would help replenish the nutrients. Just look at any cyclical flooding river and its floodplain (The Nile bieng a famous one). I know we won't be simulating nutrients per se, but it really won't be all that hard to irrigate it. Sure it will change some of our farming practices, but everything required is already in place.

[jokermatt999]

Tree farms won't be as important? Thank Armok, I'm far too impatient to wait for them to grow.

Also, I had an idea.

Since this topic winds up going off topic for dozens of posts, perhaps we could have some better organization for questions about the next version. Instead of one megathread, what about creating a separate forum titled "Questions about upcoming features". Instead of one thread for questions, have multiple. Create a new topic for a question (or set of), and it'd be easier than wading through this monster. Add someone like Footkerchief as a moderator, and edit the title to "[Answered] <question goes here>" if a forum member can adequately answer it, and Toady could not have to worry about having several thousand posts to read. It also makes searching (and finding) previously answered questions much easier. However, it'd mean missing out on all this random discussion, assuming Toady reads it. Opinions?

[Sizik]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Do you know the muffin man?

The muffin man?

The muffin man!

Who lives in Drury Lane?

She's married to the muffin man!

[GameHat]

Tree farms won't be as important? Thank Armok, I'm far too impatient to wait for them to grow.

Also, I had an idea.

Since this topic winds up going off topic for dozens of posts, perhaps we could have some better organization for questions about the next version. Instead of one megathread, what about creating a separate forum titled "Questions about upcoming features". Instead of one thread for questions, have multiple. Create a new topic for a question (or set of), and it'd be easier than wading through this monster. Add someone like Footkerchief as a moderator, and edit the title to "[Answered] <question goes here>" if a forum member can adequately answer it, and Toady could not have to worry about having several thousand posts to read. It also makes searching (and finding) previously answered questions much easier. However, it'd mean missing out on all this random discussion, assuming Toady reads it. Opinions?

I suspect it won't be nearly as bad once Toady finally releases the new version;

Hell it's two years in the making.  There probably won't be such a devastating release for another two years.  Even if there is, it will be incremental, not revolutionary as this one will be.

P.S.:  Toady
I'm not playing this game till you release.  Please do so soon, I have the itch.  There's a donation coming your way when you do. 

[Footkerchief]

Tree farms won't be as important? Thank Armok, I'm far too impatient to wait for them to grow.

Also, I had an idea.

Since this topic winds up going off topic for dozens of posts, perhaps we could have some better organization for questions about the next version. Instead of one megathread, what about creating a separate forum titled "Questions about upcoming features". Instead of one thread for questions, have multiple. Create a new topic for a question (or set of), and it'd be easier than wading through this monster. Add someone like Footkerchief as a moderator, and edit the title to "[Answered] <question goes here>" if a forum member can adequately answer it, and Toady could not have to worry about having several thousand posts to read. It also makes searching (and finding) previously answered questions much easier. However, it'd mean missing out on all this random discussion, assuming Toady reads it. Opinions?

I suspect it won't be nearly as bad once Toady finally releases the new version;

Hell it's two years in the making.  There probably won't be such a devastating release for another two years.  Even if there is, it will be incremental, not revolutionary as this one will be.

I agree with this.  I don't think it'll be as much of an issue in the glorious future of smaller releases.

[Buddybud]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Do you know the muffin man?

Les Nessman to Mr. Carlson: "I dreamt about you last night Mr. Carlson...I dreamt you were a big, fat muffin. And you sang a little song...it went something like this... 'I'm a big fat muffin that has no feet, a big fat muffin that loves to eat, but most of all I'm a big fat muffin that LOVES to explode!'...and then you did!"

rofl gotta love the old wkrp

[gordy]

So am I understanding it correctly that you'll get stuff growing in your fortress's soil and mud when you break into a cavern with plants, like how it happens now when you discover underground water? I guess he hadn't decided exactly how it'd work he wrote that, but it sounds like there'll be some kind of plant spreading.
[/quote]

I gather the devnote was suggesting underground caverns, caves and other systems come pre-seeded with plants sitting in whatever appropriate conditions for the plant ( growing on rock, in the dark, certain temperatures, etc ) or will the undergrounds be all one biome with respect to plants? Will underground plants still be affected by good and evil biomes? And regarding the 'player expansion' of caverns,of course players are going to want to make them part of a fortress construction if nothing else but to make them an outdoor garden, but if an existing cavern has soil layers ( have we established this will be the case? ) wont expanding the 'walls' of a cave only give you the underlying rock? was there potential for dorfs to make beds for plants out of soil, effectively replacing a rock layer with a soil layer (buckets?). I havent read for a whlie but will trees have seeds in the next version or otherwise spore without having to open underground areas?

[Footkerchief]

I gather the devnote was suggesting underground caverns, caves and other systems come pre-seeded with plants sitting in whatever appropriate conditions for the plant ( growing on rock, in the dark, certain temperatures, etc ) or will the undergrounds be all one biome with respect to plants? Will underground plants still be affected by good and evil biomes? And regarding the 'player expansion' of caverns,of course players are going to want to make them part of a fortress construction if nothing else but to make them an outdoor garden, but if an existing cavern has soil layers ( have we established this will be the case? ) wont expanding the 'walls' of a cave only give you the underlying rock? was there potential for dorfs to make beds for plants out of soil, effectively replacing a rock layer with a soil layer (buckets?). I havent read for a whlie but will trees have seeds in the next version or otherwise spore without having to open underground areas?

These quotes should answer most of those questions.  Feel free to repost any questions that are still unanswered (with line breaks or something, please):

Toady, are there still plants that grow underground like towercaps in the current version?  Also, will they still grow on muddied stone underground, or will they need real soil?  Do they just grow in the open layers, or will they grow anywhere underground?

There are still underground plants, and there are areas that start with them.  I haven't placed soil tiles deep underground, so they grow in mud.  I don't think it knows how to pull an underground plant population outside of a layer.  At this point things like tree farms aren't quite as important as before, since there are lots down there that will regrow, but it should probably learn how to extend to other subterranean layers at some point.  There are a few little issues like knowing where it should be drawing the spore populations from -- if you are in between a cavern and a magma layer, it should probably know that the cavern layer is always the source, but if you are in between two cavern layers but really really close to the upper one, it probably shouldn't give you spores from down below.  Perhaps an upper default is the best.

Have the underground biomes been extended beyond the CHASM, LAVA and WATER types?  In particular, do regions/layers have varying temperatures?

Aside from the magma, I haven't done anything with different temperatures.  I'll probably want to add a few more designations to control some critters that don't belong near the surface, but I haven't done it yet.  The non-magma layers themselves mostly just have variable water content in terms of biome-like things.

[zwei]

Given that we have uniforms for military, will we also be able to setup uniforms for jobs & positions? I.E. mayor "regalia" consisting of necklage, signet ring and silly hat?