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[Neonivek]

Look I read an entire detailed review of FATAL and it is incredably flawed beyond how it sticks to sexualness (or whatever that is called)

For a game that boasts being realistic it is easy to see where the game reflects nothing of reality. As it is more then possible, by naturally playing the game, to have characters who are deformed by having attributes in the norm or if I remember correctly to have character capable of speaking hundreds of words a second simply by being charismatic.

FATAL is bad even if you ignored the sex. It isn't realistic that was just a gimic and troll bait and Dwarf Fortress has nothing to learn from FATAL.

Also FATAL couldn't be made into an RPG because the game is inherantly flawed anyhow (That and you wouldn't want to play an FATAL RPG)

[Thursday Postal]

or maybe due to fetal alcohol exposure.

Dwarven amniotic fluid is 80 proof.

[smjjames]

Look I read an entire detailed review of FATAL and it is incredably flawed beyond how it sticks to sexualness (or whatever that is called)

For a game that boasts being realistic it is easy to see where the game reflects nothing of reality. As it is more then possible, by naturally playing the game, to have characters who are deformed by having attributes in the norm or if I remember correctly to have character capable of speaking hundreds of words a second simply by being charismatic.

FATAL is bad even if you ignored the sex. It isn't realistic that was just a gimic and troll bait and Dwarf Fortress has nothing to learn from FATAL.

Also FATAL couldn't be made into an RPG because the game is inherantly flawed anyhow (That and you wouldn't want to play an FATAL RPG)

Okay, I get it, this FATAL tabletop game was created by someone who was high on more than one illegal drug.

[jokermatt999]

Dragging this back on topic and away from things that should not be spoken of, seeing the new raws would be awesome, but by the time Toady wades through this topic, the new version will probably already be out in a day or two. Perhaps someone should PM or email him about it instead?

[Shoku]

They don't even ask for adamantine!

I think it is just assumed that every dwarf loves the stuff. The way I see it, no dwarf can even like it more than the next, so no one demands it/likes it. Its kind of like the "needs alcohol to get through the work day," but not written.

No, because the weird thing is, some dwarves do have it as their metal preference (and possibly it can be their stone preference as well, I'm not sure). So that means that some dwarves like adamantine even more than others, which is a scary thought.

The other weird thing is that the dwarven king/queen doesn't have an adamantine preference - or any at all - even though they travel to your fortress specifically because of it.

Obviously, they have a hidden pref for money. I mean, generally, when you strike adamantine your fortress will suddenly boom in terms of value, and since most people make crackerjack weapons and armor out of it, or if not most then a good percent, Your king/queen would likely be safest there.

So they've a hidden pref for money. And survival.

You have struck pocket full of tentacle demons. The King has un-arrived.

Spoiler: F stuff (click to show/hide)

I don't want to talk about it, but the reviews were fairly in the direction of REALITY DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY on the detailed mechanics, aside from being egregiously offended.

Unlike DF.

the explicit CAN_CIV doesn't make much sense to me presently. If a creature is able to do the thinking, and the speaking, why couldn't one civ?

Social structures. If you've got a species that has no qualms with murder over trivial disputes civilization might very wel be impossible for it.
I imagine even goblins kind of put that out of their minds for awhile as they focus on preparing to throw themselves at a row of marksdwarves.

Others just don't for no particular reason. In the settings where you've got all those talking creatures in a good forest the spirits never really have some centralized home location bigger than a grotto.

Ugh, I seriously can't wait for it to come out >w< I'm almost scared of trying to start anything serious, because I just know that the moment I get REALLY into it, the release will appear.

Stop being so greedy and do play for the good of everyone else then n 3n

Look I read an entire detailed review of FATAL and it is incredably flawed beyond how it sticks to sexualness (or whatever that is called)

For a game that boasts being realistic it is easy to see where the game reflects nothing of reality. As it is more then possible, by naturally playing the game, to have characters who are deformed by having attributes in the norm or if I remember correctly to have character capable of speaking hundreds of words a second simply by being charismatic.

FATAL is bad even if you ignored the sex. It isn't realistic that was just a gimic and troll bait and Dwarf Fortress has nothing to learn from FATAL.

Also FATAL couldn't be made into an RPG because the game is inherantly flawed anyhow (That and you wouldn't want to play an FATAL RPG)

Okay, I get it, this FATAL tabletop game was created by someone who was high on more than one illegal drug.

Hey, let's keep talking about FATAL because it's clear that the group of people here are well informed about it and evenly divided in their opinion of it so there will be lots of on topic things to say about it and not just a million people all yelling "WRONG" at one guy who decided to share something in his head with no relation to the thread.

I've purposely avoided even quoting posts about this but god damn. Sean Mirrsen finally stopped talking about it BUT IT STILL WON'T DIE. Please, don't use necromancy just so you can stab it to death some more o_0

[Vester]

Dragging this back on topic and away from things that should not be spoken of, seeing the new raws would be awesome, but by the time Toady wades through this topic, the new version will probably already be out in a day or two. Perhaps someone should PM or email him about it instead?

You're rather optimistic.

Also, there's a DF pen-and-paper RPG thread, Sean. Maybe that'd be an appropriate thread to bring the FATAL ruleset into.

[tfaal]

I just had this incredible realization. In the next version, you will be able to make a flying, flammable Hindenburg fish. By giving a gaseous, internal tissue the [FLYER] tag, you can have it so it can spring a leak, and by giving the tissue a low [IGNITION_POINT], you can have it catch flame. But best of all, if you add this creature to the raws, there will then be randomly generated titans, demons, and forgotten beasts based on your flying explosive monstrosity, and if you make use of the new templates, you can even have giant and anthropomorphic versions of your little flying death machines raid your fortress, possibly even with the anthro-hindenfish riding the giant hindenfish. If this isn't the best game ever, I don't know what is. Maybe chess. But it's a close call.

[Deon]

Dragging this back on topic and away from things that should not be spoken of, seeing the new raws would be awesome, but by the time Toady wades through this topic, the new version will probably already be out in a day or two. Perhaps someone should PM or email him about it instead?

You're rather optimistic.

Also, there's a DF pen-and-paper RPG thread, Sean. Maybe that'd be an appropriate thread to bring the FATAL ruleset into.

Well, yeah, seeing how the whole "final" section is white, I'd say it will be out in month or two. I am here from the beginning of 2007 (although I was a lurker for a year) and I am used to real things rather than overly imposed optimism .

I just had this incredible realization. In the next version, you will be able to make a flying, flammable Hindenburg fish. By giving a gaseous, internal tissue the [FLYER] tag, you can have it so it can spring a leak, and by giving the tissue a low [IGNITION_POINT], you can have it catch flame. But best of all, if you add this creature to the raws, there will then be randomly generated titans, demons, and forgotten beasts based on your flying explosive monstrosity, and if you make use of the new templates, you can even have giant and anthropomorphic versions of your little flying death machines raid your fortress, possibly even with the anthro-hindenfish riding the giant hindenfish. If this isn't the best game ever, I don't know what is. Maybe chess. But it's a close call.

With your Ideas, I hope you will be a modder . The creativity is the main thing in such "profession" .

[Neonivek]

What? Was that another FATAL mention? MUST POST PARAGRAPH ON FATAL!

Anyhow Toady isn't close to being finished so keep your pants, skirt, kilt, underpants, skin on

[Warlord255]

Ugh, I seriously can't wait for it to come out >w< I'm almost scared of trying to start anything serious, because I just know that the moment I get REALLY into it, the release will appear.

Yeah, that could end in disaster.
"I'm sorry, it's not you, it's Dwarf Fortress. I love what we've shared together, but it wouldn't be fair to you to keep going on like this. When I look into your eyes, I'm not seeing you; I'm just thinking about how well irises are simulated by the new tissue layer system."

Bahaha. Nice. My girlfriend has taken an interest in DF, so teaching her to play will be fun.

That said, my most anticipated goal in the new version - aside from the usual wonders - will be modding in my Cactusmen. Their brains will be a gooey honey-like substance with hallucinogenic properties, that will bleed out of their eyes if you bash them properly. I will make an adventurer and try to live off said honey, becoming a thing of horror and legend.

[Footkerchief]

I meant more like "everything you can spare". I don't feel like requesting for specific things, just about everything save languages and engravings is important. Also, the already-posted raws are likely to be outdated.

I disagree.  The raws for inorganic materials and bodies probably haven't changed much since the preview, and I doubt most of the item raws have changed at all.  The bulk of entity defs will still be uninteresting and we're obviously not getting raws for all the revamped creatures.

By giving a gaseous, internal tissue the [FLYER] tag, you can have it so it can spring a leak, and by giving the tissue a low [IGNITION_POINT], you can have it catch flame.

The ignition part may not be entirely satisfying.  The gas will probably ignite while it's in tissue form, but when it leaks out of the creature and becomes a gas flow in the air, I don't think it will ignite.

Dang. At least soldiers that do have swimming skill will teach it to other soldiers, I think.

It sounds like they'll only teach skills flagged (in the code, not raws) as having military applications, which may or may not include swimming:

They can currently teach weapon skills, wrestling, dodging, punching (grasp strikes), kicking (stance strikes), shield and armor use, yeah.  They can also teach general close-quarters/ranged combat principles.  They won't actually teach kicking though, since it's not a primary attack for dwarves -- biting is the same way.  If you have a mod where biting is the primary attack, they'll teach biting instead.  If you have multiple primary attacks, they'll teach all of the relevant skills.  I think if a tantrumer learns throwing, they'll also start teaching the dwarves that, he he he.  The examples throwers give in class based on their wealth of experience must be pretty funny.

[Willfor]

The solution is to mod in oars, make them use the swimming skill, and make yourself an army of Oarsdwarves.

[tfaal]

By giving a gaseous, internal tissue the [FLYER] tag, you can have it so it can spring a leak, and by giving the tissue a low [IGNITION_POINT], you can have it catch flame.

The ignition part may not be entirely satisfying.  The gas will probably ignite while it's in tissue form, but when it leaks out of the creature and becomes a gas flow in the air, I don't think it will ignite.

Perhaps a more hackish solution is in order. High fixed temp [FLYER] gas inside a room-temperature fixed temp bladder. The bladder should keep the gas from heating up the surroundings, and when a hole gets poked in it, the stuff starts flowing out and burning your dorfs. Since gas flows disappear over time, the fact that it's temperature is fixed shouldn't be noticeable. That assumes that [FIXED_TEMP] even works on flows though, which I'm not so sure about.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I remember Toady talking about steam transferring it's heat. That means that flows have temperature, and if that's the case, evaporated tissues probably get their heat info from the temperature of the tissue at the time of phase change. And if the tissue is fixed temp, that means it's always exactly what we want it to be, dwarf singeingly hot. This solution also leads to the possibility of dwarves wearing hindenfish bladder armor to protect themselves from warm clowns.

[Reese]

Spoiler: F stuff (click to show/hide)

I don't want to talk about it, but the reviews were fairly in the direction of REALITY DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY on the detailed mechanics, aside from being egregiously offended.

Unlike DF.

the explicit CAN_CIV doesn't make much sense to me presently. If a creature is able to do the thinking, and the speaking, why couldn't one civ?

Social structures. If you've got a species that has no qualms with murder over trivial disputes civilization might very wel be impossible for it.
I imagine even goblins kind of put that out of their minds for awhile as they focus on preparing to throw themselves at a row of marksdwarves.

Others just don't for no particular reason. In the settings where you've got all those talking creatures in a good forest the spirits never really have some centralized home location bigger than a grotto.

It's important to look at what makes civilization occur(and how you define civilization); we have plenty of examples of human cultured in various forms of civilization.  granted civilization should mean the building of cities or villages, the primary factors would be a race's willingness to live together in large groups and close quarters, and the race's capability with invention or adoption of technology.  Considering how world gen goes, a desire to expand and settle into a large kingdom or empire should also be a factor.

The question is, what races exhibit these three characteristics? Dwarfs for certain, humans historically, elfs barely meet the last requirement, and seem to get a pass on the second.

[Footkerchief]

Perhaps a more hackish solution is in order. High fixed temp [FLYER] gas inside a room-temperature fixed temp bladder. The bladder should keep the gas from heating up the surroundings, and when a hole gets poked in it, the stuff starts flowing out and burning your dorfs. Since gas flows disappear over time, the fact that it's temperature is fixed shouldn't be noticeable. That assumes that [FIXED_TEMP] even works on flows though, which I'm not so sure about.

Yeah, I have no idea what FIXED_TEMP would do for a gas flow.  Aside from that, it might work as long as you make the bladder of a material that wouldn't take damage from the hotter gas tissue, i.e. has a high enough MELTING_POINT and HEATDAM_POINT.