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[Sean Mirrsen]

But that's mining. Add a stoneworker's job, "preserve engraving". This will make an "engraved slab" object, and damage the wall a little, as if it was mined. Then add another stoneworker job, "apply engraving" - basically inset the previously preserved engraving into a natural or constructed wall. Seems like a good halfway point for engraving constructed walls.

[Neruz]

The piece of rock taken from 1 square of wall can be used to build 1 square of wall. We can logically conclude that unless the rock vanishes, mining out a wall is no different from deconstructing one and both result in the same amount of material.

[JoshuaFH]

But that's mining. Add a stoneworker's job, "preserve engraving". This will make an "engraved slab" object, and damage the wall a little, as if it was mined. Then add another stoneworker job, "apply engraving" - basically inset the previously preserved engraving into a natural or constructed wall. Seems like a good halfway point for engraving constructed walls.

I very much like this idea. Bonus points if it can be done to both natural and artificial walls.

[Sean Mirrsen]

The piece of rock taken from 1 square of wall can be used to build 1 square of wall. We can logically conclude that unless the rock vanishes, mining out a wall is no different from deconstructing one and both result in the same amount of material.

No, it's different. Just because the game's tiles are quantum, it doen't mean constructed walls are the same. Also, the game takes Acceptable Breaks From Reality for now, because having it otherwise requires comparably unnecessary rewrites. Ideally, the mason constructing a wall out of a mined rock will actually break the rock apart, and subsequently tearing the wall down will produce rubble or small rocks, not a complete usable rock. Blocks will actually be counted (ideally) and carried by the dozen. If it takes 10 blocks to build a wall, tearing it down should produce an amount of usable blocks proportional to the worker's stoneworking or masonry skill, and the rest are turned into rubble.

[JoshuaFH]

Also, is sand going to remain an infinite resource? Or will I actually have to worry about my supply in the future?

[smjjames]

Going by what others said, it will most likely stay the same, infinite.

[JoshuaFH]

Darn, I wanted to use that in combination with the caravan arc to bankrupt the world of sand and trees building a castle entirely out of clear glass.

Guess I'll just have to settle for vast and egregious damage to forests everywhere.

[Cruxador]

Also, is sand going to remain an infinite resource? Or will I actually have to worry about my supply in the future?

It'll remain infinite for the foreseeable future, but Toady has toyed with the idea of treating it like a fluid eventually. In that case, supply will matter, but you'd be able to get sand coming in from the edges too.

[Hellzon]

Also, is sand going to remain an infinite resource? Or will I actually have to worry about my supply in the future?

It'll remain infinite for the foreseeable future, but Toady has toyed with the idea of treating it like a fluid eventually. In that case, supply will matter, but you'd be able to get sand coming in from the edges too.

Hello quicksand?

[Footkerchief]

Also, is sand going to remain an infinite resource? Or will I actually have to worry about my supply in the future?

It'll remain infinite for the foreseeable future, but Toady has toyed with the idea of treating it like a fluid eventually. In that case, supply will matter, but you'd be able to get sand coming in from the edges too.

Yeah.  It came up in DF Talk 4:

Rainseeker:   So I think this is one of the ways I have the most fun in this game is making things. I had a lot of fun particularly when I went to a desert and found a magma pool and decided to make glass, just tons and tons of glass, I had like ten glass refineries - or kilns I guess - just made tons of it, and then started building a glass fortress, because it's an unlimited resource. Is that ever a plan of yours, to make a sand pile limited?

Toady:   There's this notion of sand as a fluid I think, that's kind of intriguing. Like if you have a bunch of sand leaning up against a rock wall and you remove the rock wall, the sand doesn't retain its shape, it'll just flow into the cavern. So it would be really cool if it could be made into a fluid like that, that behaves kind of like lava does now; because lava makes more slopes, it doesn't worry about fluid pressure and all that kind of thing. And it would be cool if the sand could move like that, but at the same time you could still walk or even build on it, or whatever you need to do. And in that way it would become a limited resource because when you scoop up some it would just remove a unit of sand from the square. Snow has a similar thing. Right now though it depends not just on the fluid rewrite - which is going to allow us to support more fluid types at once - but also the notion that this is a very special fluid that can be walked on and all that. So you'd be pathfinding over it, and at the same time it would be able to flow. It's one of those things like; is this an insurmountable problem? It might be, it might be one of those things that's very very difficult to do.

Rainseeker:   Well [it] would make it actually very difficult to build; especially if someone decided to build on a sand dune.

Toady:   That should be hard, but you could still pitch a tent there or something; and then that tent should just fall over if you drain the sand into a giant sinkhole or something.

Rainseeker:   Well I'm thinking people build pillars to support things, so if someone built a pillar on a sand dune which then shifted that thing should fall over and that should be really interesting to do.

Toady:   That's one of those things that's very difficult but you'd ideally want sand to have those additional properties.

[jpwrunyan]

There's going to be a fluid re-write?  That's awesome.  Where can I find out more?

[Footkerchief]

There's going to be a fluid re-write?  That's awesome.  Where can I find out more?

It's this dev item:

# Bloat325, ADDITIONAL LIQUID TYPES, (Future): Candidates for new flowing "liquids" include sand, oil, mud, blood of various sorts, slime, farm products like grain and beer for the beer fountain. Only a limited number of materials from plant raws like beer would be able to be supported as a map flow at a given time.

Toady has often commented on the difficulties:

Toady, which release are you intending to implement custom fluids?

I have no idea.  They aren't crucial to anything, so it's just going to be an act of excess when it happens.  It's something I often want to do, but the technical stumbling blocks which will potential slow down the flow code are the thing stopping me from suddenly doing it.  Getting the flows to run at a decent speed and getting them to interact with each other in any way (instead of just the magma/water interaction) are the issues.

[Shoku]

You had people walk around with facial masks.

People still do.

I see people doing that in years where there's only the regular flu to worry about.

You had people walk around with facial masks.

People still do.

That's ridiculous.

If you tend to get colds bad and can't afford to be knocked out of work for a week it's decent. You might even pick up some immunity while you're wearing it if whatever virus ends up on the dry surfaces of your body and dendrites go play show and tell in your lymph nodes with it.

Really the major way of getting infected with those is sticking your fingers in your eyes to get dirt or whatever out though. I don't think many of those sorts of infections could do very well in human populations purely through the nasal and mouth membranes.

[Chthonic]

At first, I was kind of meh about the overreaction over H1N1.  Now that it's delaying DF on the very cusp of release, the CDC definitely needs to stamp it out, burn its cities, and salt its fields . . . or whatever you do to a virus that must end.

Hope you feel better soon, Toady.

[Korbac]

Get well soon, Toady. Being ill can really dampen your mood; I hope you aren't down for long!