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[TerminatorII]

@The Battery Issue

Well we have found a lot of daggers and other objects that have impossiably thin and delicate layerings of gold on them to be formed from gold leaf. Some people think htat is was used by master atrisans and passed on only to apprentices. So I don't think it was widespread, but the knowledge was out there.


@Steam

Yeah it was a toy that was invented like 3 years before the fall of Alexandria. Also of note is the Water powered clock that was invented in Rome just prior to the first sacking of Rome by the Goths. The workings of it were way ahead the normal technological levels of the time and some experts believe that if Rome had not been sacked, that Rome could have ushered the world into the Industrial revolution thousands of years before it actually occured.

[CobaltKobold]

Er... Isn't this just probably the end of month break?  He's been going hard for what, two months now?  He deserves one.

Six months since month-end happened actually. And a little more since he was last sick.

some experts believe that if Rome had not been sacked, that Rome could have ushered the world into the Industrial revolution thousands of years before it actually occured.

Some experts? Consider the names "dark ages" and "renaissance"  (from rebirth)

Also internal plumbing. The Hauling Guildmaster swings the ☼Lead Pipe Section☼!

[G-Flex]

The Egyptians invented the steam engine? This again?

Seriously, the aeolipile was not a steam engine.

It spun itself around and that was it. Honestly, every couple months or something, someone brings it up as proof that steam power/engines existed thousands of years ago, but they didn't. An engine has to actually do something. The aeolipile could not do any useful work; it was just a weird little demonstrative device.


Oh, and the "baghdad battery" wasn't a battery and couldn't provide any electrical charge at all without modification, and only very, very, very little with it... just like plenty of other things.

The workings of it were way ahead the normal technological levels of the time and some experts believe that if Rome had not been sacked, that Rome could have ushered the world into the Industrial revolution thousands of years before it actually occured.

There was way more to the Industrial Revolution than that. The Chinese had water clocks and plenty of very advanced technology, and they certainly didn't cause the Industrial Revolution either.

[KaelGotDwarves]

There was way more to the Industrial Revolution than that. The Chinese had water clocks and plenty of very advanced technology, and they certainly didn't cause the Industrial Revolution either.

Yeah, the Chinese had gunpowder way before many other civilisations and they used it for pretty fireworks and weak rocket-cannons.

Other people got a hold of it and BAM. Guns. More powerful cannons. Britain came back with them and forced China into a puppet state trading partner for awhile. They're still pissed about all of that you know.

[TerminatorII]

and the Baghdad batter as you call it could provide enough voltage for electoalisys without any modifications. Several people have created mockups and remakes of it. (It was not powerful enough to make sparks, or to really shock you either.)


And the aeolipile while not a steam engine was a steam powered device. If it had gotten around the likelyhood of other people making modifications, or applying the principals in different ways would have resulted in that. Also what was the aeolipile? It was a device the shot steam out the top and cause a piecce of it to spin around. This is identical in principal to todays most advanced steam engines. (those powered by nuclear fission)

[smjjames]

Just proving the principle of how a steam engine would work is different from actually making a steam engine.

It didn't help that it was right at the fall of Alexandria.

Water clocks have been around for ages, I think the Egyptains may have used them, but a water clock is not a steam engine.

[decius]

Also what was the aeolipile? It was a device the shot steam out the top and cause a piecce of it to spin around. This is identical in principal to todays most advanced steam engines. (those powered by nuclear fission)

So, of the two of us, only one has ever operated a steam plant using steam produced by a pressurized water reactor.

Yes, a modern steam turbine does use steam to 'spin around'. It does not
a)"Spit" steam out, in any sense.
b)Lack a control mechanic, so as to regulate the speed at which it rotates.
c)Operate at anything close to atmospheric pressure.
d)Vent to atmosphere at any point

Modern steam turbines have more in common with classical windmills than with the aeolipile.

I could maybe see coal-or-magma heated engines producing power, in the same sense as windmills. They would, of course, need a flowing water supply to condense the steam, or a flowing distilled water supply to constantly feed the boiler.

I'm sure you can mod in a waterwheel that needs to be built over magma, and call it a 'steam engine'.

Since there is a very low voltage required for electroplating, I can believe that early cells and batteries were capable of it. The chemistry required to know HOW to electroplate... that's something else, and I don't know if the ancient world figured it out by trial and error or not.

[G-Flex]

There was way more to the Industrial Revolution than that. The Chinese had water clocks and plenty of very advanced technology, and they certainly didn't cause the Industrial Revolution either.

Yeah, the Chinese had gunpowder way before many other civilisations and they used it for pretty fireworks and weak rocket-cannons.

And multi-stage rockets, and landmines, and hand grenades, and weird spinning things that shot fire and poison at you. Just saying.



Regarding the Baghdad Battery:

However, even among those who believe the artifacts were electrical devices, electroplating as a use is not well regarded today. Paul Craddock of the British Museum said "The examples we see from this region and era are conventional gold plating and mercury gilding. There’s never been any untouchable evidence to support the electroplating theory." The gilded objects which König thought might be electroplated are now believed to have been fire-gilded (with mercury). Reproduction experiments of electroplating by Dr Arne Eggebrecht consumed "many" reproduction cells to achieve a plated layer just one micrometre thick. Other scientists noted that Dr Eggebrecht used a more efficient, modern electrolyte; using only vinegar, the battery is very feeble.

In fact, just read the two of these sections:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_battery#Electrical
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_battery#Non-electrical

Basically, the way it's designed explicitly insulates it from providing electrical current without modification, and even if you were to modify it as such, it wouldn't even produce enough voltage for you to feel if you touched it, or even to electroplate metals.

In other words, it would have been completely useless as an electrical device.

Hell, you can get a better electrical charge by rubbing a balloon against your head, or your feet on carpet.

[Neonivek]

Alright: Guns, batteries, landmines, grenades I can believe

But NO way am I going to believe that people in the ancient times had access to Carpets

[KaelGotDwarves]

There was way more to the Industrial Revolution than that. The Chinese had water clocks and plenty of very advanced technology, and they certainly didn't cause the Industrial Revolution either.

Yeah, the Chinese had gunpowder way before many other civilisations and they used it for pretty fireworks and weak rocket-cannons.

And multi-stage rockets, and landmines, and hand grenades, and weird spinning things that shot fire and poison at you. Just saying.

All of which are totally awesome, but not as practical as mass-producing a metal rod filled with some gunpowder with a small projectile and shooting somebody with it.  lamed.

[smjjames]

Yay devlog update!

Sounds like he will be out of commission for at least another week.

Anybody else think the Luteifisk didn't help much? heh. Not trying to slam anybodys cooking though.

[insectcalm]

Oh man, get better, Toads

[sproingie]

I'm not sure Lutefisk can be classified as cooking.  Or food.  Man, and I thought gefilte fish was nasty.

The chinese may have invented gunpowder, but propelling cannonballs with it came out of the church-driven science of bell casting.  Much more effective than rockets.

[G-Flex]

Alright: Guns, batteries, landmines, grenades I can believe

But NO way am I going to believe that people in the ancient times had access to Carpets

The hand-knotted pile carpet probably originated in the Caucasus between the 3rd and 2nd millennium BC.

Ha!

[Martin]

Feel better Toady. I've been down the H1N1 path. It sucks, but when doesn't the flu? As a sacrifice to good health I shall have Morul kill Orcs in your name today.