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[Eduren]

That makes me wonder how magic and chemistry might interact once more complete versions are in the game. Would magic change any physical properties or would its influence be meta-physical? Could it act as a universal catalyst for reactions? Could magic, for example, excite a lump of uranium to release its radioactivity all at once?

Related: Is there ever going to be a notion of radioactivity? It doesn't have to be for the purposes of reaction, rather heat and biological effects. Along the same line, when are we going to see lead poisoning?

[brainfire]

Whoa, guys. Someone mentioned that leather armor is better than plate vs. blunt weapons, and we're staying on topic? I'm pretty sure we're supposed to devolve into a ten page discussion of types of armor and weapons and spiked hammers and forging methods and boiling oil and horseriding and feudal economics.

[SirPenguin]

Whoa, guys. Someone mentioned that leather armor is better than plate vs. blunt weapons, and we're staying on topic? I'm pretty sure we're supposed to devolve into a ten page discussion of types of armor and weapons and spiked hammers and forging methods and boiling oil and horseriding and feudal economics.

ToadyOne just shot himself in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about blunt weapons vs. leather/plate (I'm an expert), but padding and damage are huge parts of it. It's not like it is with a sword where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw up blunt damage vs. plate and leather, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the DF public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to download Dwarf Fortress, nor will they download any of ToadyOne's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but ToadyOne has alienated an entire market with this move.

ToadyOne, publicly apologize and fix blunt damage vs. leather/plate for Dwarf Fortress or you can kiss your business goodbye.


[btw: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?post=1540873&page=1&postnum=5 . This and that picture I posted before will be the last times I'm snarky in this thread - promise!]

[Footkerchief]

That makes me wonder how magic and chemistry might interact once more complete versions are in the game. Would magic change any physical properties or would its influence be meta-physical?

The Slaves to Armok dev goals are a good place to get a feel for what DF's magic system might end up looking like.  And yeah, a lot of them imply augmenting material properties, or transforming one material into another.

Could magic, for example, excite a lump of uranium to release its radioactivity all at once?

Related: Is there ever going to be a notion of radioactivity? It doesn't have to be for the purposes of reaction, rather heat and biological effects.

Explicit modeling of radiation seems pointless.  It's like miasma and the infection mechanics, which don't "know" about microbes -- many aspects of DF's worlds are modeled after primitive/supernatural/unscientific views of reality.  But it's very reasonable for dwarves to encounter certain minerals and gases that give them a peculiar sickness, especially when ingested or inhaled (radiation poisoning from a distance doesn't seem worth worrying about).  What I'm getting at is that it'd probably fall under the umbrella of the upcoming poisoning system.

Along the same line, when are we going to see lead poisoning?

Maybe in the next version, if Toady feels like attaching a poison syndrome to lead.  You'd probably have to collapse a lead wall to poison anyone though.

[Misterstone]

Poor Toady.  I wonder if he is actually suffering from Lutefisk poisoning rather than the flu?  Just kidding; hope he gets as much rest as he needs and gives finishing the release less priority.

*edit* Will Lutefisk (made from fish and potash-derived lye) make it into the game?


*edit x2* How about monsters MADE FROM Lutefisk?  With caustic slime attacks?

*edit x3*  I wonder what the mechanical properties of lutefisk as a material are?

[CobaltKobold]

Like, take leather. Leather will perform better against blunt weapons than plate armor would. Before, in the old system, there was no reason to wear leather armor.

sure there was.  THe leather would stack along with plate armor.

Leather Armor[ S]   Plate Armor[ S] max one [ S] per body slot = no.  (It does't make sense, but that's how it was.

Liquid density will hardly be used ever (I guess a covering of molten lead will weigh you down... it'll be the least of your problems then though).

Does it float or sink? Do other things float or sink in it? Admittedly until magma gets reworked to be more specific, water'll be the only one it'll be terribly useful for. (WEll, tissues perhaps. When you melt, will you float or sink on that magma? )

Explicit modeling of radiation seems pointless.  It's like miasma and the infection mechanics, which don't "know" about microbes -- many aspects of DF's worlds are modeled after primitive/supernatural/unscientific views of reality.  But it's very reasonable for dwarves to encounter certain minerals and gases that give them a peculiar sickness, especially when ingested or inhaled (radiation poisoning from a distance doesn't seem worth worrying about).  What I'm getting at is that it'd probably fall under the umbrella of the upcoming poisoning system.

Urist, Philosopher, has mandated the production of Pitchblende Mug. (/doubleobscure)

[Sean Mirrsen]

Makes sense. Leather armor is hard. What you're looking for, for padding, is a leather shirt.

[smjjames]

Or maybe leather scale mail? May be a bit out of time period though.

[Shoku]

it's basically a force of nature.

So what I'd encourage everyone to do is really try and let arguments die by starvation

Knowing how this works doesn't stop people from becoming a part of it :/
I've been the one to tell a lot of people this sort of thing on some other forums but about 60% of the time the response is basically them spitting in your face.

I just realized a lot of the caste stuff was off in another thread though so ya, I'm totally at fault for being pissy about it here.

Is it possible to mod in certain weapons, such as brass adamantine knuckles, that use the section of wrestling that involves striking? Alternatly, can I make spiked shoes, which use the kicking skill and are located on one's foot as opposed to the traditional weapon position?

Only thing I reflex against there is holding a weapon with a foot. You could technically make the foot grasp stuff but then they'd just hold shields and axes with their feet too.

I think.

Oh you ain't seen nothin yet.  There are about 20 mechanical properties, although ~9 of them are mostly or completely unused right now (the torsion, tensile and bending ones).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This lets the game know to use this item to determine the exact material type for the leather product in the tanning reaction.
   [MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:TAN_MAT:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:LEATHER]
   This lets the game know that an animal was likely killed in the production of this item.
   [IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL]

This got me imagining a horribleFUN fort of dwarves that had all had their skin removed otherwise non-lethally.

[x2yzh9]

In the new version, will adventure mode be 'frozen' per se? As in nothing happening apart from what you do, Or will it be 'living' to a degree?

[Footkerchief]

In the new version, will adventure mode be 'frozen' per se? As in nothing happening apart from what you do, Or will it be 'living' to a degree?

It's always been "living" to a degree.  However, there won't be much more activity in the world than there is in the current version.  We'll see more of that stuff once the Army Arc and Caravan Arc really get going -- in particular, these items from dev_next:

Basic Army Arc

• III.A.1: Having civ/site leaders organize armies and continue world gen wars (Core45,Core46) 
• III.C.1: Ability to travel with an army in adventure mode (requires III.A.1) (part of Core65) 
• III.C.2: Ability to receive a group and perform army-related tasks in adventure mode (part of Core65) 
• III.D.1: Handling basic succession for all positions during regular play (part of Core63) 
• III.D.2: Allowing conflict over succession, schisms and contested claims to entity positions in world gen (part of Core63)
• III.D.3: Allowing such conflict in regular play (part of Core63)

Caravan Arc Preliminaries

• II.A.1: Realization of guarded tribute caravans from existing world gen tribute relationships (Core81) 
• II.B.1: Ability for civs to enter into trade during world gen (part of Core3) 
• II.B.2: Realization of trade caravans from existing world gen trade relationships as traveling groups on the world map (part of Core3)
• II.B.3: Control inventory of shops in adv mode based on trade and available site resources (part of Core42)
• III.B.1: Addition of bandit groups which harass caravans (part of Core71)
• III.B.2: Ability to be a caravan guard in adventure mode (part of Core65)

[Aqizzar]

Something I thought of while looking through Legends mode.  I know in the upcoming version, the age-levels of a caste can be marked as ADULT, to signify when they can start having children.  Is it possible to put a time limit on that?  Or have the caste progress to another age-level that's not adult after being an adult?  Because outside of the famous dwarven propensity of giant families, I notice a lot of human ruling families who go on plunking out kids until one of them drops dead at 117.  On top of being unsettling, it's obviously unrealistic.

[Footkerchief]

Something I thought of while looking through Legends mode.  I know in the upcoming version, the age-levels of a caste can be marked as ADULT, to signify when they can start having children.  Is it possible to put a time limit on that?  Or have the caste progress to another age-level that's not adult after being an adult?  Because outside of the famous dwarven propensity of giant families, I notice a lot of human ruling families who go on plunking out kids until one of them drops dead at 117.  On top of being unsettling, it's obviously unrealistic.

There's no visible mechanism for it in the new dwarf raws.  In fact, they're still stuck with [BABY:1] and [CHILD:12] -- those didn't get updated to match the precision of the new BODY_SIZE tag, which allows you to specify a day as well as a year.  So I'm guessing that aging will continue being neglected for now.

I'm not sure how sharply fertility should drop off.  Menopause is a discrete point, but it's preceded by years or even decades of declining fertility.  Males don't have any clear stopping point at all.  And individuals vary greatly in how fast their hormone levels fall.  But yeah, it should at least be considered unusual for the graybeards to keep on having kids.

[arghy]

How would a nuke even work? haha i could see a giant firestorm that destroys buildings that would roll over your entire map--maybe have it trigger cave ins? TOADY I WANT TNT TO MINE WITH!

Think about it, its the perfect counter to walls! have it destroy and collapse walls so it could help you mine out large areas and for sieges you could have petards with barrels of black powder to smash your fortifications.

[Stormrage]

How would a nuke even work? haha i could see a giant firestorm that destroys buildings that would roll over your entire map--maybe have it trigger cave ins? TOADY I WANT TNT TO MINE WITH!

Think about it, its the perfect counter to walls! have it destroy and collapse walls so it could help you mine out large areas and for sieges you could have petards with barrels of black powder to smash your fortifications.

TNT is extremely undwarfly.