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[MoatMan]

Is anyone else actually more excited by this than Christmas? I despise the festival, as it happens, but don't let that mar the question. Christmas has a lot of negative things associated with it, while the DF update is all joy and fluffy wamblers.

I'm way more excited about this release than Christmas. I even built myself a new system to prepare.

YES. For me this release is at least three Christmases in one tight bundle of super joy.

[Toksyuryel]

Of course, neither NetHack nor ADoM has had an update in years, so they're not exactly ongoing....talk about an oxymoron! 

Though there hasn't been a new release of NetHack since 2003, the list of bugs fixed continues to update on average once a week, so *someone* is still working on it.

[AbacusWizard]

Of course, neither NetHack nor ADoM has had an update in years, so they're not exactly ongoing....talk about an oxymoron! 

Though there hasn't been a new release of NetHack since 2003, the list of bugs fixed continues to update on average once a week, so *someone* is still working on it.

And yet for some reason I still find myself returning to nethack.org once every few days, hoping that maybe, just maybe, it'll say "Click here for information on version 3.4.4."

What would happen if you made a human-man?

I myself have often wondered:

Let F(x) be the anthropomorphizing function; e.g., F(wolf)=wolfman, F(duck)=Donald, F(cat)=Bast, etc.

What is F(human)? Moreover, what is F^-1 (human) ?

[LumenPlacidum]

The real question would be if we had a race of things just called 'hu'.  Then, what would F(hu) be?

Also, if your human exists both in the domain and the codomain of your F, then it's quite possible to have it just map to itself.  I want to know if it's homomorphic.  When you cross-breed a cow and an alligator, then anthropomorphize the result, do you get the same creature as when you cross-breed the cowman and alligatorman?

[Quatch]

Part of me wants to believe that you're all attempting, in the spirit of irony, to engage in the most boring, useless, pointlessly semantic argument in the history of words.  The other part of me just wants to to tell you all to stop.

I've seen worse.

Just a flesh wound.

What is F(human)? Moreover, what is F^-1 (human) ?

F(human) is a null function, easy enough. F^-1, maybe embrionic? maybe neanderthal type?

[nocash]

Let F(x) be the anthropomorphizing function; e.g., F(wolf)=wolfman, F(duck)=Donald, F(cat)=Bast, etc.

What is F(human)? Moreover, what is F^-1 (human) ?

F(human) = white zombie

[dragnar]

Part of me wants to believe that you're all attempting, in the spirit of irony, to engage in the most boring, useless, pointlessly semantic argument in the history of words.  The other part of me just wants to to tell you all to stop.

I've seen worse.

Just a flesh wound.

What is F(human)? Moreover, what is F^-1 (human) ?

F(human) is a null function, easy enough. F^-1, maybe embrionic? maybe neanderthal type?

F^-1 = ...Hu? An animal that resembles a human in some ways?

[CobaltKobold]

What is F(human)? Moreover, what is F^-1 (human) ?

F^-1 won't exist in any nice way because your function will add features only if they are missing, therefore one cannot predict reliably what input was used to generate.

Speaking of raws, everyone go read today's dev log right now.  Holy cow.  Creature templates implemented on a whim.

I have a sneaking suspicion my mods had something to do with it. I mean, seriously. It's more or less exactly my "Dr.More-Oh" mod upgraded into a game-supported feature.

...that was exactly what I thought. Actually, did yours support snakemen easily made, or only four-limb critters?

[Siru]

Some sort of (relatively) hairless primate. Which incidentally can be used to make very fine leather.

[Christes]

Well clearly F(Human)=Human, since humans are already human.

Assuming our function is one-to-one, that gives F^-1(Human)=Human.

[Mephansteras]

I'm going to have to mod in a race of 'Hu's in the next version.

Hmm...what to make them? Maybe very plain basic humanoids. No hair, pale, almost no variation of features...yeah, I can make that work.

[CobaltKobold]

Well clearly F(Human)=Human, since humans are already human.

Assuming our function is one-to-one, that gives F^-1(Human)=Human.

That's an erroneous assumption. F(wolf) = wolfman F(wolfman) = wolfman.

[CobaltKobold]

Quick pseudocode because it's more a programming-function as I understand it.

If ( not grasps and is_quadruped) make_upright_biped (comment: this line should be revised, then it'll handle snakemen needing an upright segment, and centaurs not needing to be made upright)
if (not grasps and has_nonstance_forelimbs) add_opposable_thumbs
else if (not grasps) add_arms
if (not intelligent) add_intelligence
if (cannot_speak) alter_voicebox_and_mouth_to_speech_capable

[Christes]

Well clearly F(Human)=Human, since humans are already human.

Assuming our function is one-to-one, that gives F^-1(Human)=Human.

That's an erroneous assumption. F(wolf) = wolfman F(wolfman) = wolfman.

I agree - in fact, I'd say our function is idempotent.  In this case it doesn't make sense to talk about the inverse of F.

Now if you want the pre-image of {Human}, you will get a set the includes humans and possibly the aforementioned humanoid creatures.  This conversation could go deeper, but I don't see the value. 

I also like that Pseudocode ^^^

[Shoku]

I'm not sure about the cooking methods of chicken though.

Raw chicken is a serious health hazard - It's an easy method to get food poisoning. It should always be served fully cooked with +75 degrees Celcius inside, which is enough to kill the most common hazardous bacteria. As for the source... I don't think I'm going to translate my cooking class books to English, it should be easily accessible information anyway.

Well yes but the subject was the nutritional impact of cooking food, at least thanks to my loose wording. The whole not-losing-energy-puking-up-a-lung thing is more what I had in mind but not what the discussion proceeded on.

In regards to that last point of mine I meant specifically that I don't know what cooking does to the toughness/texture/etc of chicken.

from a way back, but no one seems to have caught the implications in the WoT

Handling vitamins seems tricky. It's essentially the same as being poisoned except you'd have a value ticking down and suffer from low levels instead of high ones.

Maybe instead of defining it on particular plants you could have general categories like "citrus fruit" and either throw reverse-poison tags on those or have a file of ailments and assign preventative food categories to the ailment.

This may be hard to put in. But if anything like it ever does, then this "reverse poison" idea makes adding the mechanics of addiction dead simple. All you need to add to that process is a lack of need for the substance unless the creature has already consumed it once. then a flag is raised, and the "reverse posion" mechanic starts up.

I know that this leaves a lot out, but as a stripped down mechainc for addiction, I think it's pretty good. And I like the idea of poisons that once consumed once have to continue to be consumed. Or a poison that once consumed once causes you to have to consume another UNRELATED substance. These crop up in SF/F from time to time and are waywickedcool in my estimation.

I know that multiplying timers can have really nasty impacts on performance but there are plenty of ways to have these function as values that don't need to be checked as frequently as that, I think. I'd like to see some genetic algorithm stuff going on so they didn't all just sleep and eat in waves. It would mean some more complicated checks when they went looking for their next job but should still be nothing compared to the pathfinding that kicks in for every job anyway.

I myself have often wondered:

Let F(x) be the anthropomorphizing function; e.g., F(wolf)=wolfman, F(duck)=Donald, F(cat)=Bast, etc.

What is F(human)? Moreover, what is F^-1 (human) ?

Well the old classic pretty much showed us that F^-1(hobbit) = gollum so it shouldn't be too hard to picture a similar version for other races of man.