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[Totaku]

Odd, does this mean that he's putting "Stout Creatures vs. Items" on hold till after the underground(since it's not greened out)?

Not that I'm too worried, since I know he will get to it eventually (probably because there are some elements needed down there that'll be nessesary for the other update). Either way, it's about time we got back to the Dwarven Underground.

Should be about a week based on what Toady said before it's appoximately finished.

[Neonivek]

Wooh! Underground week!

[Footkerchief]

Some of you people are so petty over the silliest of things.

Yes, it was petty of me.  I don't have much tolerance for people making unsubstantiated "corrections" to things I've said.

Though this is rather off topic anyhow and even if we were to say "Ohh what about adding this to Dwarf Fortress" I would say "No!"

Yeah, it's questionable how detailed the nutrition simulation should be.  Scurvy does have a rich history, but declaring the vitamin C content of fictional plants is a little too nerdy even for me.  Tracking calorie and protein levels would be enough, I think. 

Though adding food poisoning chances to meats wouldn't be a bad idea.

Imagine if certain foods had a different chances of food poisoning or straight out poisoning individuals.

Poisoning can be done by the size of the poisonous contact areas vs. the rest of the body (so a Urchin which is all poison would be difficult, while a snake where you could just cut off the head would be simple)

Yeah, dwarven equivalents of fugu would be interesting.  The fish cleaners need a little more danger in their lives.

[smjjames]

Odd, does this mean that he's putting "Stout Creatures vs. Items" on hold till after the underground(since it's not greened out)?

Check again, its greened out now.

[Totaku]

Odd, does this mean that he's putting "Stout Creatures vs. Items" on hold till after the underground(since it's not greened out)?

Check again, its greened out now.

Ah I see, I guess he chose to update then green out. I guess I'm getting too jumpy as the release gets closer...gotta be patient....

[smjjames]

He does seem to be trying to hold off on the rope ladder thing as long as possible though as thats really the one major item thats not greened out. Ignoring the other blue one in the same category because Toady said he could work on that one forever if he wanted to.

[Kayla]

Some of you people are so petty over the silliest of things.

Yes, it was petty of me.  I don't have much tolerance for people making unsubstantiated "corrections" to things I've said.

Though this is rather off topic anyhow and even if we were to say "Ohh what about adding this to Dwarf Fortress" I would say "No!"

Yeah, it's questionable how detailed the nutrition simulation should be.  Scurvy does have a rich history, but declaring the vitamin C content of fictional plants is a little too nerdy even for me.  Tracking calorie and protein levels would be enough, I think. 

Though adding food poisoning chances to meats wouldn't be a bad idea.

Imagine if certain foods had a different chances of food poisoning or straight out poisoning individuals.

Poisoning can be done by the size of the poisonous contact areas vs. the rest of the body (so a Urchin which is all poison would be difficult, while a snake where you could just cut off the head would be simple)

Yeah, dwarven equivalents of fugu would be interesting.  The fish cleaners need a little more danger in their lives.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd really rather not track the calorie intake of dwarves whom are going to eat whatever they want anyways. My dwarf fortress would either be filled with extremely skinny dwarves, or obese dwarves so beyond the term 'fat', that they cannot even move.

And even with the ability to pick what each of 200 or so dwarves can eat at any time, that's more microrealism than fun.

(Unless you can trap a goblin or somesuch in a cage, and feed it some specific herb or food that contains enough nutrients to keep it alive, but horribly poisons it in some way. Bleeding out of every orifice, or very slowly losing functions of the organs, etc etc. That'd be pretty awesome.)

- Kayla

[atomfullerene]

As a PhD student in biology, I've been loving this thread recently...first insect buzzing, then meat digestibility...lots of cool biology.  On the bees buzz, I expect they do buzz in part as a warning, rather like a rattlesnake.  I KNOW that certain moths jam bat sonar by making noise.  As for digestion, I have also read that cooking decreases the amount of protein available to the body.  I've also read that it decreases the amount of energy needed to digest meat.  In fact, walking down the hall I can see a poster to that effect in front of the lab next door.  Bear in mind the two are not mutually exclusive...there is more in meat than protein, and it's possible for cooking to simultaneously make less protein available while making the rest easier to access. 

As for myself, I think we cook because it makes things taste better.  Mailliard reaction FTW!

edit--clearly bats use sonar, not radar

[KaelGotDwarves]

holy crap, Today just plowed through those dev items.

*here's to the underground and bug testing them

[Dwarfu]

edit--clearly bats use sonar, not radar

Not if you mod in aquatic bats...

[Footkerchief]

Odd, does this mean that he's putting "Stout Creatures vs. Items" on hold till after the underground(since it's not greened out)?

Check again, its greened out now.

Oh wow, you're right.  So much green!  I wonder what happened with the clothing situation.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd really rather not track the calorie intake of dwarves whom are going to eat whatever they want anyways. My dwarf fortress would either be filled with extremely skinny dwarves, or obese dwarves so beyond the term 'fat', that they cannot even move.

And even with the ability to pick what each of 200 or so dwarves can eat at any time, that's more microrealism than fun.

Well, yeah, the AI would have to get some minor upgrades so that dwarves can select nourishing meals for themselves (except maybe if they're the sort of dwarves that make bad decisions).  But they already get unhappy thoughts from eating the same food over and over, so malnutrition isn't as big of a leap as it might seem.

As for myself, I think we cook because it makes things taste better.  Mailliard reaction FTW!

Yup.  The difference in protein content of raw vs. cooked meat doesn't seem particularly worth simulating.  The interesting aspects of raw vs. cooked are spoilage and cultural attitudes.

[Emily Murkpaddled]

Considering we were all shielding ourselves against the perceived necessity of a mid-January release anywho, I think it would be fine if Toady decided to dedicate two weeks to the Underground instead of just one. I think it would be a net positive in the long run. :V

[smirk]

Well, tracking of fat as energy storage is in for this release:

08/03/2009: Greened out another section on the list. Doing that mostly involved adding a notion of energy storage after eating and then making fat and muscular dwarves become larger, both overall and by the specific tissue, with effects on speed, insulation, taking damage, combat effects like being knocked over, etc. It uses the recuperation attribute to differentiate them metabolically at this point, so some dwarves will retain more fat than others, assuming they are eating the same amount. For now, tissues can only be set to thicken according to strength (like muscles) and/or energy storage (like fat). It's still pretty lax with clothing, so you shouldn't have to worry about making clothes in different sizes, either for children or different adults.

Not sure whether dwarves would get a set amount of energy per eating job, or if energy amount is a food-specific attribute. Personally, I'm rooting for the latter.

Also, it seems to be just generic "energy" rather than specific proteins and vitamins and such, but it just might be something he'd want to make more detailed later. Could tie it in to poisons, whenever those get reworked. I kinda like the idea of slowly poisoning prisoners by feeding them on nothing but polar bear livers...

[Sean Mirrsen]

Considering we were all shielding ourselves against the perceived necessity of a mid-January release anywho, I think it would be fine if Toady decided to dedicate two weeks to the Underground instead of just one. I think it would be a net positive in the long run. :V

I think so too. Even though I would very much like a release this year, a release next year with even more features would be much better. Stick as much of them in as the time allows! For example, I would like to see 3d mineral placements and "embedded" gems as part of the underground diversity. Or proper aquifers.

[smjjames]

edit--clearly bats use sonar, not radar

Not if you mod in aquatic bats...

Your point bieng? Cetaceans (whales and dolphins) use sonar underwater. The difference between sonar and radar is that sonar uses sound while radar uses radio waves. I know the difference goes deeper than just that, but just making it clear how they are different.