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[Xgamer4]

Are the little oddball tokens (like[SAPLING_DROWN_LEVEL:#]) ever going to be put into vanilla? Is there some horrendous bug relating to them that I am currently unaware of?  They don't appear broken. All but the non-sapling tree drown level seem to work fine from what I observe.

I say it because this current blank stockpile the bottom of you channels solution seems a bit silly.

I don't understand.  Bottom of what?  Solution for what?

From what I understand, saplings have a nasty habit of growing in the bottom of channels. One way to prevent this is to designate the bottom of the channel as a stockpile, which prevents anything from growing. The raw tokens he mentioned apparently aren't implemented in the raws themselves, but do exactly what they sound like and also solve the same problem. So he's wondering if there's anything fundamentally broken about the tokens that would cause them to not be used.

[Toady One]

Ah, the default level for saplings is 4 (and 7 for trees), and I didn't have a reason to make it something different.  I'm not sure what he wanted.

[Core Xii]

I took a break from following development for a while, so it's been a while since I checked: Is materials/item selection scheduled for the looming update? That is to say, can you select what to decorate stuff with, which rock to make mechanisms from, etc.?

Micromanaging all the workshops, stockpiles and doors to get the right materials used for the right job is my biggest gripe with the current version.

I see this is 3rd on the 'eternal suggestion voting' thingy - Does that imply either way?

[Sysice]

Beware the evil trees in the deep.

[CobaltKobold]

    Did ivory/horn/teeth/etc. become options for decorations as well?


Yeah.

I mean, can you do it in dwarf mode? Where(crafts?)? also, can dwarves decorate with stone yet? It always seemed off that they couldn't.

[Footkerchief]

I took a break from following development for a while, so it's been a while since I checked: Is materials/item selection scheduled for the looming update? That is to say, can you select what to decorate stuff with, which rock to make mechanisms from, etc.?

Micromanaging all the workshops, stockpiles and doors to get the right materials used for the right job is my biggest gripe with the current version.

It won't be in this update, no.  However, the workaround (for making them use specific items/materials) will be much easier, since you'll be able to use burrows.  It's the functional equivalent of walling them in, except that it's much quicker (just assign a dwarf, workshop, and stockpile to a burrow) and a hauler can still bring new items to that burrow from outside (like if you wanted to keep your bauxite-mechanism-maker supplied with raw bauxite).

I see this is 3rd on the 'eternal suggestion voting' thingy - Does that imply either way?

It's significant, yeah -- the priorities following this release will be improved sieges, fleshing out Adventure Mode, and the top 10 ESV entries (officially he's going to "consider" those entries for implementation, but material selection is very feasible).

[Footkerchief]

can those dwarf teeth that get knocked out be used as bones in crafts?

Pieces that are small won't be used.  The butcher will normally eliminate these, but if they get knocked out earlier, they are just garbage.

It does make sense that unuseful teeth would just get left embedded in the skull or something.  Although someone did mention teeth strung on a necklace, which would be pretty cool trophies for the more psychotic hunters and soldiers.  Would it be that much of a can of worms to require items of a certain size for various crafting jobs?  I guess it could be frustrating when the item only comes in one size (like boulders and logs), but it seems straightforward enough for leather, bone and so on.

The only way to hide things eyes right now would be something like a partial containment relationship with the skull or something...  that might not be out of place, but I'm not sure if it'll lead to weird things or not, since the skull is internal and the eyes are external.

It would be interesting to make use of the DEEP_SET appearance modifier for eyes here (that might not be very realistic, I don't know).  I guess it could just augment the contained-ness by a variable percentage.

And yeah, the penetration size controls how deep it can go, to avoid other strange things.

For a creature's unarmed attacks, does ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC apply the percentage to the BP size?  For multi-BP attacks, like biting, if the BPs have different sizes, does it just pick the smallest of the bunch for this purpose?  (I imagine it would have been annoying to let each BP make its own wound.)  The situation I have in mind here is creatures with very large fangs and a bunch of smaller teeth, like sabertooths or hippos.  Although I guess the attack might as well just use the big teeth in that case.

[Jiri Petru]

They used to raid boxes for them and put them on, but I don't think there's anything there for that now.  Not sure when I'll get back to it, but yeah, they are there to be worn.  I think the tax collector's guards will still do it to owned items in boxes, but that's quite rare.

Wait, what?
The Royal Guards steal items?

[Footkerchief]

Wait, what?
The Royal Guards steal items?

As part of ransacking, yeah.  I don't know how one would go about observing this in-game.

It will be nice to have some control over the royal guard, but I suspect that it will still just be a black hole to throw cripples into to keep the nobles happy. Have you ever thought about their practical purpose and what they could be guarding against?

Not much.  Their current role is to walk around with the tax collector and ransack rooms for things they want to walk off with, so they'll certainly need changes.  Being able to use them as a standard squad most of the time will tide that wait over a bit, anyway, until the nobility actually has to worry about life beyond a well-placed lever.

[JohnLukeG]

I just hope more liquids will make it into the release after this one. 

I won't truly be satisfied until I see

Cat blood 4/7
Goblin blood 1/7
Elf blood 2/7
Urist McImmigrant (drowning)

on a tile description. 

[Footkerchief]

I just hope more liquids will make it into the release after this one. 

I really wouldn't count on it.  You may have already seen this, but it's definitely relevant:

Toady, which release are you intending to implement custom fluids?

I have no idea.  They aren't crucial to anything, so it's just going to be an act of excess when it happens.  It's something I often want to do, but the technical stumbling blocks which will potential slow down the flow code are the thing stopping me from suddenly doing it.  Getting the flows to run at a decent speed and getting them to interact with each other in any way (instead of just the magma/water interaction) are the issues.

[JohnLukeG]

I see...

Well, I'll just dump a bunch of corpses, bones and live carp into a watery pit and pretend it's blood, then. 

[Aqizzar]

postin' fiends!

If you wrestle something to death (or kick), do your graspers record the kill? and upon death or severing..

Ha ha, nah.  But if you sever your own hand and kill somebody with it, it will.

I don't see tower caps being as evil as glumprongs in any case, but perhaps there are bad ones deeper down...

Nothing like those military-comedy movies yet, with the real jokers.

People might need to find a new way to execute immigrants they don't want around.

Toady, will the training weapons that you've added to the game be available as an object type that moods can create?

I haven't particularly excluded them yet.  I guess it would be sort of depressing to get one.

The issue is to make sure they aren't just snacking on eyeballs all the time and not working.

Always a goldmine of quotes.

[darkflagrance]

Will traps/pressure plates work in adventure mode in this version?

I don't think anything has changed there.  The main issue is cage traps locking the game up.  They need some sort of escape/starve-to-death interface.  There's also the matter of other traps being unavoidable.  If you don't have cage traps and don't care about not being able to disarm or avoid traps, you can turn the other ones on in the init, even in the current version.  I'm not sure when I'll get to the proper fixes for this.

Alas, it seems that even Toady has fallen prey to this very common misconception.

Even with the init option turned on, no trap, not even pressure plates, works in Adventure mode. One only has to stroll over the the "Combined project - The world of traps and attractions" thread (here:http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25429.0) to see this for oneself.

[Footkerchief]

He knew about that problem at some point, at least:
# 000853 □ [adventure mode][traps]   even if they are turned on, adventurer mode traps do not work