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[CobaltKobold]

*places laurel crown upon elven diplomat* Clearly we are not so different after all.

[Footkerchief]

Occurs to me that for sharktooth swords, dragontooth spears,etc. you'll already have the contact areas defined. Which is awesome. hmm...

Huh?  No, unless I missed something major about a new weapon format or something, you'll still have to define the contact area for each weapon's various attacks (as well as the EDGE flag).  A weapon item doesn't "know" about the relsize of a body part used in its creation.  Even if you wield the body part itself as a weapon, it won't be used in the same way that its original owner used it:

Will I be able to rip and tear a GCS's venom-dripping fang and stab it with it to paralyze it?
Will it be immune?!

They don't drip, unfortunately, unless you make them work by secretion instead of a special injection attack.  If you did it that way...  I think that would partially work.  A sever transfers contaminants, so assuming the secretion, you'd get a venom-covered fang (hopefully not a contact poison or you have gloves on!).  However, I don't think the game would react correctly to using the fang as a weapon.  There's still not a strong enough notion of body shape -- it still works through attack properties, so the stabbing would be lost as things stand.  You'd be able to transfer the venom, but not as an injection.  The question of immunity is up to the raws.

[CobaltKobold]

Occurs to me that for sharktooth swords, dragontooth spears,etc. you'll already have the contact areas defined. Which is awesome. hmm...

Huh?  No, unless I missed something major about a new weapon format or something, you'll still have to define the contact area for each weapon's various attacks (as well as the EDGE flag).  A weapon item doesn't "know" about the relsize of a body part used in its creation.  Even if you wield the body part itself as a weapon, it won't be used in the same way that its original owner used it:

Will I be able to rip and tear a GCS's venom-dripping fang and stab it with it to paralyze it?
Will it be immune?!

They don't drip, unfortunately, unless you make them work by secretion instead of a special injection attack.  If you did it that way...  I think that would partially work.  A sever transfers contaminants, so assuming the secretion, you'd get a venom-covered fang (hopefully not a contact poison or you have gloves on!).  However, I don't think the game would react correctly to using the fang as a weapon.  There's still not a strong enough notion of body shape -- it still works through attack properties, so the stabbing would be lost as things stand.  You'd be able to transfer the venom, but not as an injection.  The question of immunity is up to the raws.

I...meant that you should be able to derive them. For a single toothed-weapon (spear) it'd work, at least, though the force will be different, the sharp components are the same, as is the angle basically. So for spears at least, you could copy most of the fields.

(For a sharktooth sword, it'd be making a weapon with an attack of multiple teeth in a row, swung...it should be fairly easy to generate the stats with the code already there, is what I'm saying.)

Am I making sense? I have a tendency to communicate poorly...

[smjjames]

I notice that there are no walrus tooth items, so maybe there is a size limit to what teeth can be made into stuff?

Ivory is nothing but mammal teeth/tusks big enough to be carved.

I was talking about teeth as an item. I know what ivory is, but we have dragon teeth which are probably comparable to a large theropods, so I was wondering about other teeth since most animal teeth would be smaller.

[Footkerchief]

I...meant that you should be able to derive them. For a single toothed-weapon (spear) it'd work, at least, though the force will be different, the sharp components are the same, as is the angle basically. So for spears at least, you could copy most of the fields.

(For a sharktooth sword, it'd be making a weapon with an attack of multiple teeth in a row, swung...it should be fairly easy to generate the stats with the code already there, is what I'm saying.)

Am I making sense? I have a tendency to communicate poorly...

Oh, yes, you can certainly copy them over or make a reasonable approximation.  Makes sense now.  I thought you were talking about an automatic process where you create a weapon from any creature's teeth and it figures out the appropriate contact area, etc.

[CobaltKobold]

actually I was pointing that it should be low-hanging procedural fruit sort of thing to do- a dragontooth spear should not be equivalent to a hydratooth spear, or even equivalent bar material. Shapes and sharpness and whatnot.

[Neonivek]

Hmm also with the concept of "Inferior items" that Toady has in the Devs. It could somehow be combined with the idea of incomplete but still functional objects.

So you only have ten dragon teeth when a proper dragontooth sword (or spear) needs fifteen, it doesn't need to stay in the workshop but it should be inferior to those that are complete.

Sharpness could also be determined by the creature's attack enhancement.

[Footkerchief]

actually I was pointing that it should be low-hanging procedural fruit sort of thing to do- a dragontooth spear should not be equivalent to a hydratooth spear, or even equivalent bar material. Shapes and sharpness and whatnot.

It's... somewhat low-hanging.  I don't think it should be taken for granted that a "dragon tooth spear" is just a dragon tooth stuck on the end of a spear shaft.  The tooth could conceivably be sharpened, slimmed down, engraved with a commemoration of the dragon's death, and whatever else, although a plain unadorned tooth would be badass in its own right.  It's also not obvious, taking the shark tooth sword as an example, where the teeth are attached to the sword (one "blade" or two? tooth on the front to allow stabbing, or not?) and whether they'd all be involved in a given attack.  There are enough ambiguities that it'll probably have to wait at least until Toady implements a system for item components (as in, or at least planned for, Armok 1) so that the placement and orientation of a distinct sub-item like a tooth can make sense.

[CobaltKobold]

Which would be a good time to update macahuitls. too.

...hmm. Objects are only one material for practical purposes presently, you're right...

Oh well. Donkey Jawbone clubs?

[uioped1]

Regarding butchery, I really hope that for example producing sweetbreads is pretty uncommon at low skill levels.  I mean think about it.  If you had someone off the street attempt to butcher a cow (let alone an elephant) they'd be pretty hard pressed to get anything more than a fraction of the meat off it, let alone a usable skin or a being able to identify that an organ is something they might want to eat.  I grant that these are dwarves we're talking about, and what looks appetizing is a little different, but they shouldn't just reach their grubby hand into the cow and pull out sweetbreads without fail.

What would be really awesome is if sometimes they pulled out the gallbladder or something equally disgusting, and called it sweetbreads, making whoever is unfortunate enough to try and eat it have a bad thought.  In some cases this could even be dangerous.

This brings me to another point: we need accidents in DF.  Plenty of skilled carpenters lose fingers or worse.  an unskilled dwarven butcher attempting to make something of an elephant's carcass could very well get lost in there.  Imagine the bad thoughts that could result from that tragedy:  Urist has eaten a friend recently.

-a.

[Lancensis]

actually I was pointing that it should be low-hanging procedural fruit sort of thing to do- a dragontooth spear should not be equivalent to a hydratooth spear, or even equivalent bar material. Shapes and sharpness and whatnot.

If you get wounded by a hydratooth spear you'd better make sure you dig the tip out pretty sharpish. Don't want anything nasty growing in the wound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yYeZMx1Y7U

[CobaltKobold]

Also, that sharpening and whatnot could be part of the quality (or primitiveness?) of the weapon...

Main point was, you could make templates like macahuitls where you put teeth to fill one edge for X length, and such.

Urist has eaten a friend recently.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Urist has eaten a (pretty decent/fine/wonderful/truly decadent/legendary) (friend/annoying person/enemy) recently.

edit: Half a million views...yikes?

[Footkerchief]

Main point was, you could make templates like macahuitls where you put teeth to fill one edge for X length, and such.

Yeah, if/when item components go in, the weapon definitions will probably get much more template-ish.  I recently saw mention of ancient Parthian cataphracts (heavy cavalry) using lances with bone points, and following up on that, I read that the nearby Sarmatians used bone points on their arrows.  Pausanias says they used bone because they didn't have sufficient access to iron, either by trade or mining.  I didn't find any explanation for the Parthian use of bone, although my first guess is that there were geographical factors at work (both peoples inhabited areas of modern-day Iran).

Pausanius also mentions something surprising: lamellar armor made from horse hooves.

Their hoofs they collect, clean, split, and make from them as it were python scales. Whoever has never seen a python must at least have seen a pine-cone still green. He will not be mistaken if he liken the product from the hoof to the segments that are seen on the pine-cone. These pieces they bore and stitch together with the sinews of horses and oxen, and then use them as breastplates that are as handsome and strong as those of the Greeks. For they can withstand blows of missiles and those struck in close combat.

Anyway, bone points are just a more obscure variant of composite weapons, which are ubiquitous.  The main form is wooden shafts/handles coupled with stone/metal striking surfaces, but there are also more nuanced variations like bronze-tipped iron bolts and the built-to-break Roman javelin.

Although you can make a serviceable weapon with only a single material, too.  Bone knives, anyone?

[Sean Mirrsen]

edit: Half a million views...yikes?

Taking the thread creation time into account...  almost exactly 0.33 views per second, or one view every 3 seconds. Wowsers.

[CobaltKobold]

Surprising only in thinking of using that...keratin's tough(hard to damage and shatter -elastic, but high elastic limit, and high compression elasticity coefficient) and fairly tough, at least.

Don't suppose you'd know about chitin, as that's the other big one?

I think views is probably quadratic on viewers at least, though..