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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3668581 times)

Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7755 on: December 02, 2009, 12:29:38 am »

I was fairly certain one could in fact make fish leather in one's fortress.  You just need a chamber with untamed large fish in it (carp or whatever), drain the chamber, then butcher the dead fish.  I got into fish farming in one fortress at some point (following I3eReNt or whatever his name was).

Oh, okay.  I've never actually had a real fortress with big fish around.  Fish farming sounds pretty fun now that I think about it, though.
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Fieari

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7756 on: December 02, 2009, 01:18:15 am »

I seem to remember way back when it was still 2d, Toady posted an example output of his database program that organized cores, reqs, and bloats pictorially by relationship.  It looked like something out of defcon or other movie war-time GUIs.  I can't find it anymore though...
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Igfig

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7757 on: December 02, 2009, 03:07:22 am »

Didn't you have that really good artifact thread a few months ago?

Oh man, for a moment I thought this meant Neonivek had found a really valuable artifact-level piece of thread in his fortress and I was all "whaaaat?"

But this is cool too.

Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7758 on: December 02, 2009, 07:40:59 am »

Didn't you have that really good artifact thread a few months ago?

Oh man, for a moment I thought this meant Neonivek had found a really valuable artifact-level piece of thread in his fortress and I was all "whaaaat?"

But this is cool too.

Wait so I don't got an artifact-level piece of thread? :'(

As for NIVM, I don't mind your posts (I welcome them) I just notice that your posts outnumber the number of possitive posts.

So does this start Underground Week? Reminds me of Megabeast week actually, I wonder when we will get another one of those.
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Emily Murkpaddled

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7759 on: December 02, 2009, 10:40:02 am »

Another week dedicated to the Underground changes (we're capitalizing it now!) is a really exciting prospect. There's actually a lot of really exciting things happening this release, but the Underground stuff definitely competes for coolest. In fact I'd probably say it's what I was most looking forward to, but burrows (something unmentioned in the completed items list, interestingly) are going to go way further for me and so I'm more excited for those.

This is the release with burrows, right? I seem to remember there was an era of devlog updates back when burrows was being done that covered some stuff we don't have in the devlist now, but I'm concerned that it was all a dream. :X
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Lancensis

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7760 on: December 02, 2009, 10:54:47 am »

Yup. Burrows were added sort of on the spur of the moment, which is why they weren't in the Devlist. Similar thing with custom workshops.

"06/17/2009: So somebody asked if it's possible to use civilians for jobs and so on while the alert is on, in the zone to which they've been restricted. I was originally thinking more of shorter alerts where you just wanted to get them away from someplace dangerous while you fought something out. However, while I was working on it, I decided I might as well make it more diverse, so I put in burrows. "

Does anyone know if burrows can be on multiple levels? I know rooms and zones can't be now, but I was thinking of defining several areas and designating them all to be the same burrow. Also, can burrows be named?

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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7761 on: December 02, 2009, 11:20:30 am »

IIRC, yes and yes. A single "burrow zone" can't rightly span multiple levels probably, but you can designate several areas as one burrow, which includes areas on different levels.

I was wondering if the same can be used for rooms/zones? Once we have non-flooding rooms (I recall something like this being in this release as well), we might designate several disparate areas as one room... Not sure how it would be useful apart from multi-Z rooms and zones (like a giant multi-Z-level hall as a meeting area) though.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7762 on: December 02, 2009, 11:37:09 am »

Does anyone know if burrows can be on multiple levels? I know rooms and zones can't be now, but I was thinking of defining several areas and designating them all to be the same burrow. Also, can burrows be named?

Yes and yes:

You can make the burrow over rock and you can make it as large as you want.  If you get out of its bounds, you'll have to paint some more, but you can select an entire underground Z level with a simple rectangle command in advance if you want -- you can even move the cursor down to the lowest Z level so that the whole underground becomes one giant mining burrow at one command, if you find a reason for that.

"Any number of burrows can overlap and you can give them names and an ASCII symbol."

Also, burrows aren't proper zones, in case that wasn't clear to anyone:

I had mentioned previously that there are several redundancies between all of the different types of work-related areas (stockpiles, burrows, workshops, zones, rooms, etc.), but that it'd be a major project to sort them out.  We already had barracks in the previously released version so I went with those for squads.  Burrows themselves didn't fit with any of the existing critters as they stood, so I put them in.  We'll have to see how the merges play out as that comes up, but it might be a while.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 11:39:02 am by Footkerchief »
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Rainseeker

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7763 on: December 02, 2009, 11:41:09 am »

Another week dedicated to the Underground changes (we're capitalizing it now!) is a really exciting prospect. There's actually a lot of really exciting things happening this release, but the Underground stuff definitely competes for coolest. In fact I'd probably say it's what I was most looking forward to, but burrows (something unmentioned in the completed items list, interestingly) are going to go way further for me and so I'm more excited for those.

I'm pretty sure Toady is working on bug fixes and loose ends until he releases now.  We may see less posts in the dev log...  :P
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 11:50:03 am by Rainseeker »
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Sagabal

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7764 on: December 02, 2009, 11:49:46 am »

Does this mean that modders will be able to create creatures that inject molten iron instead of venom as an attack?  Because that would be amazing.  ;D
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7765 on: December 02, 2009, 11:52:13 am »

Does this mean that modders will be able to create creatures that inject molten iron instead of venom as an attack?  Because that would be amazing.  ;D

I believe this is exactly what it means. He also had dwarves that walked around with molten gold blood for some reason.
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Shoku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7766 on: December 02, 2009, 11:54:28 am »

Consider rope/ladder/etc. building particularly for downward movement into large open

IMO, this would be one of the neatest things to have in the new version coming up. I know a lot of the things that have been done are much more important and will have greater impact on gameplay. But I just love the idea of building entire fortresses suspended from a single chain... or at the least being able to build downward into chasms and such. Such a rope/ladder would almost be the inverse of a pillar... holding everything up from above rather than from below.

And then of course, you put a lever on the ladder, lure gobbos underneath, and throw the lever, destroying the ladder and dropping an "island" 20 Z-levels onto the goblins. Whee!


you can currently do that with a support iirc

edit - apart from the fact dwarfs can't go up/down it
That's the big problem. If you make stairs they can path up you've connected two levels with firm support. It's still possible to use things that don't support to keep it separated but it's a tedious effort.

Though I realise that "Large Gems" are likely a Place Holder for a more complicated Large Gem System.

Probably a safe assumption.  Item size variation is slowly but inexorably making its way into the crafting system -- "cloth and thread items have associated lengths/areas now," and we may see something similar for butchery byproducts like bone, to prevent ridiculous stuff like fish bone bolts.

Toady's said before that he's worried detailed clothing sizes would be a burden for the player, but I don't see why, as long as creatures can wear oversize (and slightly undersize) items.  It would be cute to see dwarven children running around in their parents' shirts, etc.  Each clothing item could have one or more relative sizes corresponding to the relsizes of the body parts it's worn on, so a goblin could wear a human's clothing and so on (might get tricky if trying to wear the clothing of a non-humanoid race).  Armor usage might be hampered by ill-fitting armor.

I think what we need is a way to deal with used garments. If children could just drop off their too-small clothing in a stockpile and have it automatically set for processing down into scraps (the more worn out the sock the less useful the material from it?) at the clothier shop clothing would start to make more sense in general I think.

Though there are plenty of other advanced features to clothing that would improve it so *shrug*

The issue with simply changing what weapons are due to sizes OTHER then style differences is the handle.

A Giant Knife may be smaller then a Great Sword... But it would be impossible to hold because of the size of the grasper.
DF doesn't come with any standard civs that have that bigof a scale distance so except for possibly kobolds it makes sense for their hands to be able to grasp things of about the same diameter. If you look at chimps humans have actually got some usual hand proportions to allow our fingers to curl in all the way (chimps' max range leaves an open space that they could poke another finger into.)

But whatever the actual case with the sizes of hands these races should have the 50% size leniency rule would probably work fine for the graspability of weapons.

We need a new FoTF thread when the new version comes out. Who shall be the one to create it? We can't go around with ten or twenty FoTF threads.
If you lock the olde ones sure we can.

I was fairly certain one could in fact make fish leather in one's fortress.  You just need a chamber with untamed large fish in it (carp or whatever), drain the chamber, then butcher the dead fish.  I got into fish farming in one fortress at some point (following I3eReNt or whatever his name was).

Oh, okay.  I've never actually had a real fortress with big fish around.  Fish farming sounds pretty fun now that I think about it, though.
I probably wouldn't be able to get myself to bother without an editor program that would just turn a cow or something into a fish for me. Luring stationary creatures into cage traps doesn't work so well for me hardly ever.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7767 on: December 02, 2009, 11:56:40 am »

Does this mean that modders will be able to create creatures that inject molten iron instead of venom as an attack?  Because that would be amazing.  ;D

I believe this is exactly what it means.

Yeah, I think so, although I'm not sure where you'd set the initial temperature of the injected substance in the raws (you could use a fixed-temp version of iron, but that's just mean).
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 11:58:30 am by Footkerchief »
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Aqizzar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7768 on: December 02, 2009, 12:06:09 pm »

Quote from: Toady One
...a quirk with dust (which was knocking people out like cave-ins no matter the source)...  We've also got water freezing into frosty stuffs on people if they get wet and then step out into the cold, and steam coming off of spirits of fire in the rain.

If these "gasses" work like smoke/steam/mist/miasma/boiling materials do now, doesn't that mean that there's going to be a lot of gas flows obscuring the player's vision?  I know that work as a punishing effect of smoke and miasma, but it sounds like I'm going to be picking my way through dust clouds and steam anytime there's an unusual situation.  Has the visual effect of "gasses" been changed at all?
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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7769 on: December 02, 2009, 12:11:29 pm »

Quote
We've also got water freezing into frosty stuffs on people if they get wet and then step out into the cold, and steam coming off of spirits of fire in the rain.

Hm... did Toady considered these events as bugs ? They look perfectly fine to me.
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