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[Shoku]

For burns... from what I can tell, there are some parallels.  Blood supply gets cut off (due to baked-shut capillaries), cells die (apparently at temperatures above 160 F / 40 C, presumably because of denatured proteins), and necrosis causes the usual problems.

Yes, denatured proteins. 40C isn't high enough to boil the water away so the cell membrane would stay intact but lose the partial-crystal structure cells of various types build into it meaning disrupted chemical pathways and less controllable cell skeleton. That sucks for a cell but is no reason it shouldn't go back to it's usual functions if cooled (or even for the cell to not be able to adjust it's membrane back to the semi-crystal balance,) so this leaves the slightly more ambiguous death of wrecking cell systems to the point that the cell can't just churn out a fresh batch of proteins. Due to extremophiles we can safely say that DNA, polypeptides, and the really standard stuff shared by all life doesn't just fall apart at 40C which does just leave us with misfolded proteins either clogging up the system or actively chewing it up. Which ones and why probably varies quite a bit between species but that's basically true any time you're talking about proteins.

I have to say, I learnt about the properties of sodium as a metal by around the age of fourteen, so I'm kinda surprised by this subdiscussion. But then, I live in a country with an adequate public school system (lucky lucky).

It's possible to learn decent general science here but you basically have to want to learn it and do a lot more of the work yourself than normal people seem willing to.

[Quatch]

Sugestion abaut the magma men to Taody: Have two layers of magma, with only the inner one being fixed temperature, that way there can be cool stuff.

I was thinking this, but in terms of an infinitly hot heart slowly leaking heat out into the magma, so you can freeze them solid with water, but they'll thaw out.


Also, as soon as they surface, they are lava men. Sad but true.

And, finally, 40C isn't really hot (unless its air temp...) . 40C=104F. 160 is 71C.

[JoshuaFH]

I would very much like Alkali metals in the game!

I just personally think it would be fun to strike into a vein of potassium/rubidium (if you can mine it, that is) and then set up a contraption to flood the fort, and turn the fortress into an emergency nuclear bomb.

[G-Flex]

It would be neat, but the fact that they're so reactive means you simply won't find them in nature. Well, obviously you'll find SALTS of them, but there's quite a big difference between hitting rock salt and hitting explosive soft dangermetal.

[JoshuaFH]

I man can dream.

That reminds me though, don't we already mine radioactive rocks? Will radiation sickness be implemented?

[ToonyMan]

That reminds me though, don't we already mine radioactive rocks? Will radiation sickness be implemented?

Venom (last changed Aug 29)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• Venom raw definitions and structures
• Inhaled poisons
• Contact poisons

I'm not completely sure about radiation, but contact and inhale poisons are in.

[Footkerchief]

I man can dream.

That reminds me though, don't we already mine radioactive rocks? Will radiation sickness be implemented?

Kind of.  You could set up a long-term, low-level syndrome that results from the inhalation of pitchblende dust, for example.  However, the dust won't actually be generated unless you have a cave-in (there'll be more widespread use of dust later on).  Also, there's no support yet for getting poisoned by rays or whatever.

If you wanted to simulate pockets of radon gas in rock, you could mod in a poisonous "mineral" that vaporizes at room temperature.  You could make one copy of this mineral to occur in each major type of layer rock, and give it an identical name to the layer rock, so occasionally you'd dig into a limestone wall and the boulder would vaporize and give you "radiation poisoning."

[G-Flex]

I man can dream.

That reminds me though, don't we already mine radioactive rocks? Will radiation sickness be implemented?

It's an interesting question: How radioactive IS most radioactive rock?

Even pitchblende usually radiates a relatively small amount.


However, consider radon. It's problematic in the real world because people's basements are sometimes built within granite, and granite tends to be high in uranium dioxide, which releases radon as a product of its decomposition. Radon is especially bad because you're inhaling the stuff and you're dealing with an area with low ventilation.

So, what does that say about dwarves who have half a fortress dug out into the stuff?

[Innominate]

Oh man, now I want to find a way to simulate pockets of explosive gas that get ignited by sparks from mining. You can kind of do it for a single square, setting boiling point really low and specific heat high. That will cause the stone that is dropped to instantly boil and lower the temperature, freezing all those nearby. It's just not the same though

[CobaltKobold]

Unless it is a very nice candle... err I mean Sword!

Obviously the sword is made out of some sort of self-cooling wood like Maple or Oak

We must make candleswords.

_{...did I just figure out how to make a nice flaming sword? tube to the hilt, run oil down the bloodgroove...maybe not.}

[Saber Cherry]

I man can dream.

That reminds me though, don't we already mine radioactive rocks? Will radiation sickness be implemented?

It's an interesting question: How radioactive IS most radioactive rock?

Even pitchblende usually radiates a relatively small amount.


However, consider radon. It's problematic in the real world because people's basements are sometimes built within granite, and granite tends to be high in uranium dioxide, which releases radon as a product of its decomposition. Radon is especially bad because you're inhaling the stuff and you're dealing with an area with low ventilation.

So, what does that say about dwarves who have half a fortress dug out into the stuff?

Radon is dangerous because it is extremely dense, so it collects in basements - if it was similar in density to nitrogen, probably nobody would worry about it, as it would dissipate through passive gas exchange (as opposed to forced ventilation).  In a dwarven fortress, it would probably only collect at the very bottom layer.  So, just remember to put nobles' bedrooms at your fort bottom, and everything will be fine.

Using caged goblins to detect toxic gas buildups - now THAT would be fun.

[JoshuaFH]

I like your thinking Saber, you could really go places with ideas like that.

[Osmosis Jones]

G-Flex; it's possible for species to develop tolerances to low levels of radioactivity, and I would figure that dwarves, being a primarily subterranean race, would have managed that.

That being said, Pitchblende is somewhat more radioactive than Granite...

Uraninite (Pitchblende) 157,788,157 Bq/kg ¹
Granite 69.5 ± 12.7 Bq/kg ²


Please note, the activity for uraninite is the total actvity, the activity for the granite is only the alpha emissions. I'm assuming that a direct comparison is feasible as U, which is the most prevalent radioactve species there, decays via alpha emission. 

Spoiler: Shoku, I'm being a pedant, sorry (click to show/hide)

But it is. It's a conductor rather than a resistor and it's on the d orbit section of the periodic table handing it the type of electron configuration that makes things metals. Zinc is a little more obvious as a metal because it's in that same orbital set but still lacking the malleability or whatever to generally be a construction metal.

You've generally been good, but one thing; Alkali metals are alkali metals because their valence electrons are in the s shell, not the d shell, and sodium doesn't even have any non-valence electrons in the d-shell. Transition metals (most common metals) have d shell valence electrons, things like uranium etc have f shell valence electrons.

[Roxorius]

Magma-men are filled with phlogiston, which keeps them burning.

[Saber Cherry]

Magma-men are filled with phlogiston, which keeps them burning.

Shouldn't that much (i.e., infinite) phlogiston make them light enough to fly?  Maybe they're just radioactive and in a sort of continual meltdown.  A uranium-based lifeform.