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[LordDemon]

i'd say up at the neck with legs hooked under the wings where they meet the body, or some sort of saddle that you can grip with your legs. that goes around th neck and loops around the body behind and in front of the wings. though control might be a problem.

Wouldn't giant bird riding be better with a sort of laying position? You could be laying on birds back, between the wings, in some sort of harness armed with a crossbow.
Smaller air resistance, better weight distribution and less risk of falling down. Imagine eagle with a backpack, where the flyer lays down. Once the bird lands, it will be upright, so you could slide of to your feet. I think shooting would be easier too, as most birds keep their head at level or pointed down.

[Sean Mirrsen]

It wouldn't be much of a backpack for the bird, you would be standing on your knees on the bird's back when firing bow. Remember, elves have bows. Otherwise, you couldn't aim and would be likely to injure the bird when firing. It would be a sort of a sled, a small platform strapped to the bird, with straps to fix your ankles to it. You lean forward when travelling to reduce the drag, and stand up in combat to act as a turret.

[Lancensis]

Also I don't know if the Eagle would slice heads off with he talons. I'd think they would be graspers so to speak in that they attack with their claws by grabbing and/or raking

Yeah. They tend to just plunge their talons into their prey's skull, or spine. I doubt they'd really be much good for fly-by attacks, since they'd just get the talons stuck, and tumble comically to the ground. They'd be pretty good at pouncing on an enemy, and glowering menacingly for a few seconds, before taking off again. Assuming the rider could convince them to stop eating their kill.

Have you ever seen an eagle or hawk attack in real life? I have. If a person was in metal it's be OK, but if not... If it's a large or giant variety of those species (and you ignore the implications to flight) if it doesn't shred you to bits and drive it's beak into your skull they will indeed pick you up and drop you to your death then tear you apart. It's one of the reasons why small dogs are a bad bet where I grew up. (Cats do OK though.)

Well, (pre)historically, eagles that preyed on hominids usually did so by killing them there and then, and tearing off chunks to take home to baby. Obviously it depends on both the size of the eagle and how much you're willing to look the other way with regards to the square/cube rule. Given that we've got spiders bigger than horses, I guess you've got a point.

[Typoman]

It wouldn't be much of a backpack for the bird, you would be standing on your knees on the bird's back when firing bow. Remember, elves have bows. Otherwise, you couldn't aim and would be likely to injure the bird when firing. It would be a sort of a sled, a small platform strapped to the bird, with straps to fix your ankles to it. You lean forward when travelling to reduce the drag, and stand up in combat to act as a turret.

this is more or less what i was thinking, you'd be in a kneeling position kinda like when on a motorbike but more compresed, then when firing you'd be sitting up

Code: [Select]

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<       <- firing

o_
 <      <- all other times.
like that but you're legs would be at a more acute angle,
the straps would either be non-existant for really srrong elves to allow them to bail out very quickly if need be or for less stron users would be tied with a quick release knot

since elves don't use leather it would have to be wood and ropereed, probably featherwood to reduce the weight.
armor for bird riders would also have to be very light.

as far as control, im sure the bird would fly under it's own violition most of the time (while the rider is firing) giving the rider warning (probably by the rider reading it's movements) as to what it will do, when the rider isn't firing probably reigns, vocal commands could also be useful as a backup, though wouldn't be that reliable in the din of battle, perhaps a whistle that changes pitch with how hard you blow it? different pitches and combos would mean differnet things, just have it on a lanyard around the neck and hold it in your mouth during combat

Also I don't know if the Eagle would slice heads off with he talons. I'd think they would be graspers so to speak in that they attack with their claws by grabbing and/or raking

Yeah. They tend to just plunge their talons into their prey's skull, or spine. I doubt they'd really be much good for fly-by attacks, since they'd just get the talons stuck, and tumble comically to the ground. They'd be pretty good at pouncing on an enemy, and glowering menacingly for a few seconds, before taking off again. Assuming the rider could convince them to stop eating their kill.

Have you ever seen an eagle or hawk attack in real life? I have. If a person was in metal it's be OK, but if not... If it's a large or giant variety of those species (and you ignore the implications to flight) if it doesn't shred you to bits and drive it's beak into your skull they will indeed pick you up and drop you to your death then tear you apart. It's one of the reasons why small dogs are a bad bet where I grew up. (Cats do OK though.)

Well, (pre)historically, eagles that preyed on hominids usually did so by killing them there and then, and tearing off chunks to take home to baby. Obviously it depends on both the size of the eagle and how much you're willing to look the other way with regards to the square/cube rule. Given that we've got spiders bigger than horses, I guess you've got a point.

i rather imagined they'd do it like the Nazgûl-birds or whatever you want to call them (the big wyrvyn thingy the witch king flew around on) in the LOTR, essentially swoop down grab a few enemies and bowl a bunch of others over if they are in a group, prefferably off a wall, than go to a great height and drop the ones it grabbed. if all else fails, beak em.


edit: i'm putting way too much thought into this aren't i

[Raminagrobis]

Actually the way a bird of prey attacks depends on its specie. Right now I can think of two different strategies, though I'm sure there is much more.

Slow and strong birds, like Eagles, stab and crush their preys.

On the other hand, big falcons (like the Peregrine Falcon) gather a huge speed (P.Falcon is the fastest animal in the world. In your face, Cheetah!) and strike their prey in flight, stunning it and sometimes breaking its spine. They don't have to lift their prey to kill it, so size difference is unimportant for them.

And surprisingly Eagles (or other gliders) aren't strong in anti-air fighting. Birds of prey like Falcons (non-glider, I don't know the word in English, sorry), even though they are smaller, are better against airborne foes.

Wiki quote:

Prey is struck and captured in mid-air; the Peregrine Falcon strikes its prey with a clenched foot, stunning or killing it, then turns to catch it in mid-air. The Peregrine will drop it to the ground and eat it there if it is too heavy to carry.

Peregrines defending their nests have managed to kill raptors as large as Golden Eagles and Bald Eagles (which they normally avoid) that have come close to the nest.

Uninteresting details for birds nerds:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Eagles or large owls are still a threat to falcons, as they can attack them while falcons aren't flying. The biggest falcon-killer, the Eagle-Owl is famous for killing sleeping immatures. But in flight, falcons are superior.

Oh and there is a family of P.Falcons in the church next to my flat. I can enjoy the sight of pigeons being slaughtered on a daily basis, from my window. Cool.

[Lancensis]

On the other hand, big falcons (like the Peregrine Falcon) gather a huge speed (P.Falcon is the fastest animal in the world. In your face, Cheetah!)

The peregrine falcon cheats though. It's not like it flies that fast under its own power, it just drops out of the sky and reaches the same terminal velocity of a skydiver (with limbs tucked in).The fastest powered flight is the Swift.
Really, the fastest animal in the world is a Cheetah running headlong down a vertical surface. WHEEEE!

[Typoman]

Actually the way a bird of prey attacks depends on its specie. Right now I can think of two different strategies, though I'm sure there is much more.

Slow and strong birds, like Eagles, stab and crush their preys.

On the other hand, big falcons (like the Peregrine Falcon) gather a huge speed (P.Falcon is the fastest animal in the world. In your face, Cheetah!) and strike their prey in flight, stunning it and sometimes breaking its spine. They don't have to lift their prey to kill it, so size difference is unimportant for them.

And surprisingly Eagles (or other gliders) aren't strong in anti-air fighting. Birds of prey like Falcons (non-glider, I don't know the word in English, sorry), even though they are smaller, are better against airborne foes.

Wiki quote:

Prey is struck and captured in mid-air; the Peregrine Falcon strikes its prey with a clenched foot, stunning or killing it, then turns to catch it in mid-air. The Peregrine will drop it to the ground and eat it there if it is too heavy to carry.

Peregrines defending their nests have managed to kill raptors as large as Golden Eagles and Bald Eagles (which they normally avoid) that have come close to the nest.

Uninteresting details for birds nerds:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Eagles or large owls are still a threat to falcons, as they can attack them while falcons aren't flying. The biggest falcon-killer, the Eagle-Owl is famous for killing sleeping immatures. But in flight, falcons are superior.

Oh and there is a family of P.Falcons in the church next to my flat. I can enjoy the sight of pigeons being slaughtered on a daily basis, from my window. Cool.

well that's what they would do by instinct yes, but these are trained warbirds we are talking you might train them to do something effective in combat, the insticts are to take out a single opponent to eat in battle you want to take out as many opponents as possible even if they aren't dead as lon gas they are out of commision that's what you want. i dunno what would be most effective for a bird capable of flying with a rider. also don't eagles liek to kill turtles by dropping them? or is that a myth? i imagine a giant eagle would respond to a plate-mailed dwarf or other creature in much the same way.

On the other hand, big falcons (like the Peregrine Falcon) gather a huge speed (P.Falcon is the fastest animal in the world. In your face, Cheetah!)

The peregrine falcon cheats though. It's not like it flies that fast under its own power, it just drops out of the sky and reaches the same terminal velocity of a skydiver (with limbs tucked in).The fastest powered flight is the Swift.
Really, the fastest animal in the world is a Cheetah running headlong down a vertical surface. WHEEEE!

probably not, i imagine a cheetah's terminal velocity is much lower than a p.falcon also legs can only move so fast

also i can't be bothered fixing all my typo's right now...

[Raminagrobis]

also don't eagles liek to kill turtles by dropping them? or is that a myth? i imagine a giant eagle would respond to a plate-mailed dwarf or other creature in much the same way.

I don't know about Eagles, but this behavior is common among birds in general. I've seen crows doing it to crack open nuts, and seagull trowing clams/crabs. I guess it wouldn't be too unrealistic to see an Eagle dropping a Dorf.

[Greiger]

I kinda imagine it would be far easier to drop objects onto enemies than try to shoot a bow or crossbow accurately while on the back of a flying creature.  Rocks for the elves, probably oilpot bombs for everything else.

The Naomi Novik Temeraire novels do that with dragons and it makes sense.  Against ground targets the crews drop explosives, the riflemen are only really used against other dragons.  Though the dragons are large enough to carry whole crews, and it's about 1800s technology behind the weaponry, it struck me as a rather reasonable way of attacking from a moving flying creature.

Makes me wonder if Toady will only ever allow one rider per mount regardless of creature size.  Would be kinda neat to tame one dragon and have a whole squad riding around on it raining death and destruction.

[Armok]

On the other hand, big falcons (like the Peregrine Falcon) gather a huge speed (P.Falcon is the fastest animal in the world. In your face, Cheetah!)

The peregrine falcon cheats though. It's not like it flies that fast under its own power, it just drops out of the sky and reaches the same terminal velocity of a skydiver (with limbs tucked in).The fastest powered flight is the Swift.
Really, the fastest animal in the world is a Cheetah running headlong down a vertical surface. WHEEEE!

The fastest animal is a blue whale dropped from orbit. Air resistance.

Edit: it is also probably the most dangerous animal, especialy if frozen solid.

[Raminagrobis]

There's been a lot of talk lately about cave-in (I can't find the thread where some dudes were discussing different cave-in algorithms), and more generally about increasing the difficulty of mining (it's actually something like #15 on the suggestion list).

On the other hand, increasing the likeliness of collapsing would require much more planning before designating mining, and could be an important cause of frustration for some players.

Also, with the arrival of digging enemies, sapping/counter-sapping could be used as an incredibly powerful weapon (see: ceiling falls, everybody dies).

What is your opinion on this:

1-On a gameplay point of view. Should it be challenging to dig, could your fortress be sapped, or do you want the challenge to be somewhere else?
2-On a technical point of view. How difficult would it be to implement a cave-in calculator?
3-If you think it's important, how high is it on your priority list?

[Rose]

On the other hand, big falcons (like the Peregrine Falcon) gather a huge speed (P.Falcon is the fastest animal in the world. In your face, Cheetah!)

The peregrine falcon cheats though. It's not like it flies that fast under its own power, it just drops out of the sky and reaches the same terminal velocity of a skydiver (with limbs tucked in).The fastest powered flight is the Swift.
Really, the fastest animal in the world is a Cheetah running headlong down a vertical surface. WHEEEE!

The fastest animal is a blue whale dropped from orbit. Air resistance.

Edit: it is also probably the most dangerous animal, especialy if frozen solid.

what about the bowl of petunias?

[Akigagak]

It's light, so its' terminal velocity isn't very high.

[Neonivek]

Well if we want to be specific I believe there are creatures who even swim faster the the Cheetah

[Knight Otu]

I wouldn't be surprised if the heat/cold/burn damage types have since been removed entirely, since those are only used in the current version for burning demon bites, which could probably be handled now in the same way that a magma man will set you on fire by grabbing your arm.

It's definitely been my impression that those damage types are dead now, especially from the new weapon raws and their explanations, but also from the earlier creature attacks. Sucks a bit for mods that want to add magic weapons, but creature attacks should be able to deal. Maybe there'll be a tag like the special attack line in creature attacks for weapons in a future version, though.