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[Neonivek]

really just sounds like training.

Because then you just go through rediculous levels to make sure that all the required skills for competency are properly trained because there are now 5+ skills you need.

Unless there is a training mechanic or they raise partially with eachother.

[Footkerchief]

Because then you just go through rediculous levels to make sure that all the required skills for competency are properly trained because there are now 5+ skills you need.

I don't expect having 5 skills instead of 1 to be a problem, because 1) wrestling trains way too fast in the current version, like you can get to Legendary by strangling groundhogs for a couple in-game days and 2) Toady spent about a month reworking how skills and attributes are gained, so don't extrapolate too much from the current state of the game.

I'm also not sure what you mean about "required skills for competency."  If you want to be a guy who punches people and hits them with swords, do those things and you'll get good at it, and you'll also pick up some dodging skill on the side (and situational awareness and melee combat skills).  You don't need to be good at biting to be a well-rounded fighter, nor even kicking, really.

[sweitx]

I went through archery training today. By the end, given a wagon with several stacks of five bolts each which were assigned to the squad for training, the dwarf whose commander sent him off to ranged weapon practice dutifully marched over and put five stacks of five training bolts into his quiver, and then went off to one of the squad's designated archery targets to fire them off

So, does this mean that the way marksdwarf handles ammunition by grabbing stacks of bolts until they add up to a certain number?

[Neonivek]

1) wrestling trains way too fast in the current version, like you can get to Legendary by strangling groundhogs for a couple in-game days and 2) Toady spent about a month reworking how skills and attributes are gained, so don't extrapolate too much from the current state of the game.

I fully expect 1 to be eliminated eventually (also you mean Zombie Groundhogs... though any is good)

as for 2 I never said it is a problem I said it could be a problem.

Though training the more esoteric skills without going all "throwing" on it will be something Toady may have to work on later.

Yikes I can think of other issues too.. but namely in unskilled team mates.

I mostly like to point out possible problems because I find the solutions facinating.

ALSO DANG are these connection problems bad today. I hope it isn't pernament.

[Quatch]

Does this: Personality effects on training scare anyone else?

How much will personality factor into things? Is it going to be really bad to get someone in the military who isn't loving it? Will this cross over to other job training?

In the end, how much micromanagement, and what assistance from the UI will be available to get people into jobs they want, in a 200 dwarf fort?

[Mechanoid]

Do soldiers who drink from their flasks or eat food from their backpacks automatically try to rush off and replenish their supply as soon as they consume something? Will they eat their food at a chair/table if it's close enough?

I hope this is fixed, because currently the main reason why i don't give my dwarves any waterskins or backpacks to carry is because they're basically useless; the dwarf gets hungry, eats something from his backpack, sees his backpack isn't full, and then rushes off to the food stockpile to refill his backpack. If they did it while they were off-duty that'd be fine, but really, not while they're on duty.

[Footkerchief]

Does this: Personality effects on training scare anyone else?

How much will personality factor into things? Is it going to be really bad to get someone in the military who isn't loving it? Will this cross over to other job training?

Here are some personality effects that have already been implemented, which I found by Ctrl+F'ing the dev log for "personalit":

One: "I didn't want to sit around for skill demonstrations or individual drills, so I set sparring as the only available activity, even though nobody knew how to do anything. They still stood around doing nothing, because it was still failing the personality check for the instructor, who wasn't reckless enough to send such green recruits off to spar."

Two: "Finally got my first group of completely skill-free dwarves attending a striking demonstration given by a proficient dwarf. The teaching/learning skills/att/personality stuff is all up and running, and it was nice to see the students get their first skill increases (they also learned to be better students and how to concentrate better, he he he, as well as working on several of their mental attributes, which come back to increase the quality of their learning). The naturally distractable/lazy dwarves need to make harder rolls during these passive presentations or they blank during some of their lessons, though they can overcome their deficits with skill and attribute improvements."

That should give you an idea of what's going in.  There are probably other personality effects, and I expect he won't want to spoil all of them.

Personality effects will eventually play a role in other jobs, yes.  I think Toady's said it's the kind of thing he'll be adding more of over time.

Do soldiers who drink from their flasks or eat food from their backpacks automatically try to rush off and replenish their supply as soon as they consume something? Will they eat their food at a chair/table if it's close enough?

They won't desert their posts unless they're starving (found by Ctrl+F'ing the dev log for "schedule"): "Soldiers are now divided up and assigned to their squad's scheduled orders such as patrols/training and so on according to hunger, thirst, etc. as well as preference settings and to match staffing minimums set in the schedule, and they know what equipment they should use. It'll periodically swap out soldiers to try to keep all of the month's schedule items staffed without interruptions. If it is unable to find replacements, soldiers will staff positions until they are starving (which shouldn't happen if you don't order them all to be someplace)."

Dunno about the chair/table thing, but I'm guessing no.

[smjjames]

"Finally got my first group of completely skill-free dwarves attending a striking demonstration given by a proficient dwarf. The teaching/learning skills/att/personality stuff is all up and running, and it was nice to see the students get their first skill increases (they also learned to be better students and how to concentrate better, he he he, as well as working on several of their mental attributes, which come back to increase the quality of their learning). The naturally distractable/lazy dwarves need to make harder rolls during these passive presentations or they blank during some of their lessons, though they can overcome their deficits with skill and attribute improvements."

heheh, I can just imagine a seasoned veteran doing a demo spotting a dwarf or two getting slack and then going all out on them drill instructor style, complete with verbal abuse and probably getting smacked upside the head with a shield or something.

It will certainly give new meaning to being a greenbeard (dwarven equvalent of a greenhorn, or a fresh, raw recruit) in the Dwarven Military.

Will we be able to name our squads? While its fun to have the random names, its still useful to be able to name them stuff like 1st axe battalion: codename Axedragon (maybe not that long, but you get the idea), now that squads are functional.

[Neonivek]

That is something.

Though I HIGHLY doubt it, due to political correctness and everyones disdain of injuries, do you think there will be physical abuse on behalf of trainers, generals, nobles, instructors, and heck other soldiers? A soldier who is falling behind in his studies is beaten up by his instructor, or a soldier who is doing much better then his companions is killed by his companions.

Even beyond just everyday abuse I guess there is also initiation.

[Dakk]

Why are you afraid of some inside abuse on squads in a game we'll eventualy be allowed to strangle someone with their own guts?
Toady just avoids the most polemic stuff (like adding sexual organs to bodies). Something like that is subjective, and we already have dwarves getting grudges and fighting over it.

[Neonivek]

I am not afraid in fact I welcome it. I've studied enough Psychology and Anthropology to know that abuse is a major part of being human. Mind you not all of it is mindless abuse, in fact most of it isn't.

I just don't think another other then me and a few other people (who may or may not be mentally unbalanced) would actually welcome it.

Though I still put my limit on Child Abuse for the most part.

[x2yzh9]

When do you guys version 1.0 is gonna be out? The new year is coming up and toady said he wanted it out before then.

[Neonivek]

When do you guys version 1.0 is gonna be out? The new year is coming up and toady said he wanted it out before then.

This made me laugh so hard

Even AFTER the next release this game will be no where near Version 1

Toady's current guess is 4+ years until V1

[Christes]

Only 4 years?

For all the miraculous stuff I've seen planned in V1, it would surely hve to take much longer.

[Dakk]

Meh they'd be hypocrites if they somehow turned away from DF because of such a subjective detail. I aprove of it, since it'd only enrich an already rich experience.

What I'm interested now though is how the soldier dwarf develops its skills, since now combat and squads got a major update, we'll have to rethink our drilling and training methods, at least to a minor level. Pump sweatshops should still generate super dwarves, though

Since dwarves actualy get a skill solely for biting and kicking, I'm expecting om nom nom nom-fu dwarves to show up eventualy.