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[Mad.Hatter]

I'm pretty sure the "" qualifies Chthonic's statement as a joke.

It's unfortunately not really possible to nitpick ironically.

It's absolutely possible to nitpick ironically, I rarely nitpick any other way.

[Nexii Malthus]

The problem with the whole gender-equality is when reality hits and stupid situations happen, I don't even have to go out of my way to get an example, it is one of the most blaring and ridicolous things. Baby Meatshields.

Mothers are currently hardcoded with the responsibility to lodge around the children. And even if the father took responsibility over, what if he was dead or also part of the military? It becomes really messy...



On Slavery, it'd totally be awesome if we could practice slavery if the current dwarven ethics civ your aligned allows for it, or that -- ooh... what about acting out of tradition as an outpost to your civ and changing ethics? Will there be diplomatic punishments for even being outcast by your civ to start a new one, yourself?

I think that'd be pretty impressive feats to change the course of history like that, really shaping the world.

Also don't tell me that it's bad to keep people in cages and make them to work but it's ok to burn them in magma .

Hm, depends who you talk to. Killing prisoners quickly instead of subjecting them to slow painful torture and excrutiating labours for the rest of their measly lives could be seen more as pitiful than merciless.

[Lancensis]

Oh come on, "dwarves don't abide by slavery anyhow"?
What with hundreds of goblins in cages which we throw from towers and use as gladiators versus wardogs and beasts we capture?
Dwarves are the WORST slavers in the hands of a player. There's just not a lot of control in game mechanics yet, but it's here since early versions. Also don't tell me that it's bad to keep people in cages and make them to work but it's ok to burn them in magma .

Maybe we should have war crimes trials. 15 years hard labour for indiscriminate killing of civilians, 30 for leaving their stupid loincloths all over the place.

[zwei]

Untill you can butcher sentient beings and make soap of their fat, any ethics discussion is shallow and moot.

(I can already see it in next vesion:

Oh my, champion is wounded and his wounds are starting to fester, we REALLY need some quality soap.

Hmm, no animals. Say, which dwarf is fattest here?)

[Neonivek]

Untill you can butcher sentient beings and make soap of their fat, any ethics discussion is shallow and moot

Isn't that a bit extreme? "We can't have a discussion on ethics until we can become hannible lector or however you spell that name"

[smjjames]

Hey guys, Booze instead of water just got greened out!! WHOOYEA!

Also, the forums and the B12 site seems to be having alot of problems today for some reason.

[Chthonic]

Since hunters/equipment are grouped under the squad update, does this mean we'll be able to have hunters working together in teams in this release?

[PencilinHand]

...They put on their leggings, stuffed their flasks in them, went over to the barrels, filled up the flasks with ale and then milled around in the dirt....

Toady, you are a king among men.

[Im_Sparks]

Since hunters/equipment are grouped under the squad update, does this mean we'll be able to have hunters working together in teams in this release?

I think I can answer this one!
No. (99% chance, anyway)

[smjjames]

Yea, it removes one piece of annoying micromanagement and allows the soldiers to keep from going sober.

Its nice to have the option of using water in case of a shortage or a challenge of some kind though.

Also, is the soldiers using metal flasks (canteens really) a new thing? I thought they only used waterskins. (May get answered if it already happens in the current version)

Edit: Question got answered (its a new thing), so I ungreened it.

@Chthonic: I think that is more related to formations. However, if you were able to put hunters into a squad (now that the follow the leader crap is fixed), maybe they would work together?

[PermanentInk]

well, females using their babies as meatshields is one good reason to keep them out of the militarry, that's where i start to discriminate my dwarves based on genres

ITYM helping their babies advance their Wrestling skill.

Though an arguement for Gender differences is specifically so that the game can actually have an impact when females step out of their roles to become heros and leaders. When they are all equal it is meaningless to see a female warrior or female leader or a Order of Warrior Women, their gender is doesn't matter.

Though on that subject I fully support Civilisations gaining preferences, restrictions, and privilages to specific genders. I don't mind Sexism in my fantasy world.

Agreed, this is an interesting and worthwhile storytelling element (increasingly, I've been thinking of DF as a new form of storytelling).  I think gender ethics would be an appropriate addition to the other ethics concepts in the game, and they could be used in the same way.  For example, a matriarchal culture might neighbor a culture that subjugates women, and this could lead to diplomatic conflict and ultimately war.

Just mind that it should be procedurally generated. If there's a reason for it, it should fall out based on that.

If the females of Mantisoid Betas are stronger, then they become the warrior caste, perhaps. *shrug*

To me that seems a little more restrictive than necessary.  Caste discrimination can result from historical, not just physical, causes.  Discrimination against African-Americans in the United States, for example, is a lot more tied to the history of exploitation, slavery, conquest, and cultural divergence between our African and European forebears than it is to physical differences between races.  The whole idea that discrimination is unfair is predicated on the fact that it ascribes to individuals traits which are *not* necessarily true.

So while a physical basis should be a possible influence on a culture's gender ethics, it should not be the only one.

Maybe we should have war crimes trials.

That's not 14th century technology.

[Neonivek]

There were things like Trials where Generals and stuff were charged with crimes before the 14th century.

Though they were little more then fancy executions then serious trials.

The crimes they got charged with were also things like "You fought against us" or just whatever they could come up with. Even with the Magna Carta if a King Wanted you dead he could arrange it. Just look at the Knight Templars.

[Footkerchief]

Will it be possible to change the length and frequency of pregnancies?

Don't think so.  The latest dwarf raws (inside the spoiler tag midway down) don't seem to have any new pregnancy tags.

Also, is the soldiers using metal flasks (canteens really) a new thing? I thought they only used waterskins. (May get answered if it already happens in the current version)

I just tested it and yeah, they won't use flasks in the current version, so it's new.  It would be cool if we got civilian flask-carrying too, finishing off this dev item:

# Bloat45, FLASKS, (Future): Use flasks for drinking. Dwarves should seek to have a full flask on their person at all times.

but there probably isn't time now.

[CobaltKobold]

Maybe we should have war crimes trials.

That's not 14th century technology.

Right. "Court of Star Chamber" then. *checks* 14th century, barely.

[Neonivek]

Well it all depends on what we mean by "War Crime Trial"

Putting people on trail for what they did during war is hardly something new. The Athenians had something like that for their own generals.