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[smjjames]

The real problem though is that the size of a z-level, like the size of a tile, is very abstract. I think someone said that they thought of it as bieng 10 feet in height, which would make that 390 z-levels, but someone else said that its probably more like 3 meters (about 6 feet), which I think is a bit more accurate IMO, which still gives us around 1,000 z-levels of rock.

However, if you consider the staggering size of that, imagine the MASSIVE amount of stone that could result. We are going to need a far more efficient method of dealing with excess stone if we are going to do much more than a small borehole and a few long tunnels down that deep.

This brings up another question:

When will there be more efficient ways of dealing with excess stone? I know we have ways to get rid of it, but it has to be hauled first and hauling stone one by one is extremely inefficient when we are talking about tens of thousands of rock. A few thousand is doable if you have patience or you use [SPEED:0], but with tens of thousands, it takes quite a while even with [SPEED:0]

So, when will we be getting a portable (or otherwise mobile) mining laser to vaporize said rock? (making a joke, obviously)

[Sizik]

Actually, another question:

Now that we have more Z levels down, does worldgen consider crustal thickness, specifically thinning on oceanic plates, rift zones, etc?

Also, do we have intrusive volcanic features such as dikes and sills?

Yea, now that we can go deeper than before, this is an extremely valid question. The deepest mine in the world is about 3,900 meters (12,800 feet) deep, over two miles down. I don't know how many z-levels that would be, at least 100 or more. Still, at that scale, geological features would become visible.

Since 6/7 water is right at dwarf's head (assuming dwarf are somewhat shorter then normal human) One Z-Level should be about 2 meters.  That gives a depth of 3900 about 2000 z-levels.
I'm not sure even in nanofortress a compute can simulate a 2000 z-level fortress at any reasonable speed.

Fixed

. . . bieng 10 feet in height, which would make that 390 z-levels, . . .

10 feet, not 10 meters. That would be 1280 z-levels.

[Topace3k]

Can we get a confirmation that during the work being done on sparring, the horrible tearing off each other's clothing and using it as a weapon instead of what is actually assigned thing will be fixed?

[kiffer.geo]

... If it's not fixed then we'll see dwarfs beating each other with torn off eyelids...

[Footkerchief]

Was I the only one who read the dev log as "quite a bit of monastery stuff spilled out of there" and got really confused?  Anyway, awesome to see all that green in the List.

tarn with the ability to now be able to choose how many z-levels more importantly the underground levels will there be the return of digging Too Deep?

It sounds like the answer is yes, but it'll be less scripted and predictable, and I think it was mentioned elsewhere that there won't be anything as gimmicky as a game-end timer.

Rainseeker:   I wouldn't mind - I'm kind of a conservative player myself - but I wouldn't mind dealing with first levels of critters attacking me if it progressed like the top being easier then the middle being a little harder and the bottom being the hardest.
Toady:   Yeah there's going to be some progression, which is a concept we lost almost entirely in the move from 2 to 3D. It'll be coming back, a notion of progression. It shouldn't be entirely artificial because there are some in-universe reasons for going down to [the] bad, which people are more or less aware of right? [That] there's bad things down there? And that that has a corrupting influence on your animal peoples and so on. So you'll find worse things down ... So you can kind of control your level of threat; it's not going to quite as stark as it was in 2D where you knew that you had; 'this vertical strip, I can dig out my fortress; this vertical strip has the river; this vertical strip, I can dig out my fortress; this vertical strip has the chasm; this vertical strip, I can dig out my fortress; this vertical strip has the lava' and so on. It's not quite that straightforward but there is a feeling of ... you'll kind of get a feel for the places where you can dig out your fortress I think.

When will there be more efficient ways of dealing with excess stone? I know we have ways to get rid of it, but it has to be hauled first and hauling stone one by one is extremely inefficient when we are talking about tens of thousands of rock. A few thousand is doable if you have patience or you use [SPEED:0], but with tens of thousands, it takes quite a while even with [SPEED:0]

Well, you'll probably have more reliable access to magma, so that's one way of dealing with it.

[PermanentInk]

Yea, now that we can go deeper than before, this is an extremely valid question. The deepest mine in the world is about 3,900 meters (12,800 feet) deep, over two miles down. I don't know how many z-levels that would be, at least 100 or more. Still, at that scale, geological features would become visible.

High technology and heavy machinery are used in modern mining to achieve such depths.  What was the deepest mine in the world as of 1400 C.E.?

[Mephansteras]

Are we going to see world-gen cities digging too deep at some point? I think it'd be cool to look through the histories and see a Dwarven Civ that crumbled due to overly-ambitious mining. While it should probably be kind of rare, it'd still make for some interesting events in the world.

[smjjames]

When will there be more efficient ways of dealing with excess stone? I know we have ways to get rid of it, but it has to be hauled first and hauling stone one by one is extremely inefficient when we are talking about tens of thousands of rock. A few thousand is doable if you have patience or you use [SPEED:0], but with tens of thousands, it takes quite a while even with [SPEED:0]

Well, you'll probably have more reliable access to magma, so that's one way of dealing with it.

I was mainly talking about the hauling part since that is the part that everybody moans about when they have to clear out thousands or tens of thousands of stone. Yes you can alter the raws to melt or boil the stone, but even that has its drawbacks.

Yea, now that we can go deeper than before, this is an extremely valid question. The deepest mine in the world is about 3,900 meters (12,800 feet) deep, over two miles down. I don't know how many z-levels that would be, at least 100 or more. Still, at that scale, geological features would become visible.

High technology and heavy machinery are used in modern mining to achieve such depths.  What was the deepest mine in the world as of 1400 C.E.?

Yea, good point, I was using wikipedia for the deepest mine info. I'll try searching for medieval mines and hope it doesn't turn up primitive mines of the explosive type.

[Time Kitten]

... I think someone said that they thought of it as bieng 10 feet in height, which would make that 390 z-levels, but someone else said that its probably more like 3 meters (about 6 feet), ...

Three meters is about ten feet, possible eleven...

[smjjames]

... I think someone said that they thought of it as bieng 10 feet in height, which would make that 390 z-levels, but someone else said that its probably more like 3 meters (about 6 feet), ...

Three meters is about ten feet, possible eleven...

. . . bieng 10 feet in height, which would make that 390 z-levels, . . .

10 feet, not 10 meters. That would be 1280 z-levels.

My math sucks, sorry, lol >< Dunno why I got mixed up on the 3 meters equals closer to 10 feet not 6.

Anyways, I found something, although it mentions 16th century, but its close enough to get a good idea.

Google Books link

It says that the deepest part of it is 1,650 feet ( slightly less than 503 meters. I'm using a math conversion site this time: http://www.onlineconversion.com/ Pretty cool site)

So, around 500 meters for a really deep mine seems reasonable. Going to try to find out more, I keep getting ones for that Czech mine and a Swedish mine.

[Footkerchief]

How do I condense a link so that its clickable from a word? Its a really long google books link.

Use BBCode like so:

Code: [Select]

[url=http://address.com]Please Click This Cool Link[/url]

[smjjames]

Oh, right. Thanks man.

[PermanentInk]

It says that the deepest part of it is 1,650 feet ( slightly less than 503 meters. I'm using a math conversion site this time: http://www.onlineconversion.com/ Pretty cool site)

So, around 500 meters for a really deep mine seems reasonable. Going to try to find out more, I keep getting ones for that Czech mine and a Swedish mine.

Agreed, I think we can spot the dorfs a couple centuries worth of mining ability just for being dorfs, as long as it's just general improvement and not massive new technology like explosives that allow for the added depth.

By the way, you can do conversions directly in google.  Just google e.g. "3 meters in feet" or "the speed of light in in a vacuum in furlongs per fortnight" and check out the results.

[smjjames]

It says that the deepest part of it is 1,650 feet ( slightly less than 503 meters. I'm using a math conversion site this time: http://www.onlineconversion.com/ Pretty cool site)

So, around 500 meters for a really deep mine seems reasonable. Going to try to find out more, I keep getting ones for that Czech mine and a Swedish mine.

Agreed, I think we can spot the dorfs a couple centuries worth of mining ability just for being dorfs, as long as it's just general improvement and not massive new technology like explosives that allow for the added depth.

By the way, you can do conversions directly in google.  Just google e.g. "3 meters in feet" or "the speed of light in in a vacuum in furlongs per fortnight" and check out the results.

Yea I could use google, but I prefer the conversion site.

I agree with you on that we can allow the dwarves a few centuries leeway because they are suppoused to have extremely high geological knowledge.

One thing though is that the mine we are talking about here is a silver mine, so it was probably worth trying to go the extra distance. Most sources say that its around 500 meters deep, but a few say 600 (I think the 500 is accurate), so... up to 200 z-levels? I'm not really sure what all of the limitations were as far as digging deeper. I know that bieng able to cycle air through, pumping water and dealing with the heat are the main problems.

Here is a good description of what the mines were like.

Still though, having up to 200 or 300 z-levels sounds reasonable FPS wise and there is alot you can pack into that space.

[Aqizzar]

It's so nice to see such cool stuff in the Devlog again.  Hi-larious tales of the hallowed ground and broken volcanos.

Speaking of which Toady, if its meaningfully doable at this point, could you make some screenshots of any of the new stuff?  I imagine a lot of the interface and features are still screwy, but I'd love to see these unexpected holes in mountains and the new wounds screen.