Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items (Read 3663847 times)

Razzums · « **Reply #5970 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:49:47 pm »

Quote from: Urist McDepravity on October 22, 2009, 07:23:37 pm

*Been checking dev-log for 2 years at least weekly and did read all 400 pages of the thread*
This is ONLY game which keeps me interested so long, and i believe it does not matter if release is delayed by few monthes as long as Toady keeps informing us about his work.
Failing to meet deadlines is common in software development, esp. when theres only one developer involved.

Ugh, i've made it a habbit to check this page and the development every morning for updates for the past 2 years. I'm so ready for this update.

Neonivek · « **Reply #5971 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:22:12 pm »

Well if my calculations are correct... Tommorow is the day Toady will finally finish all those questions.

i2amroy · « **Reply #5972 on:** October 23, 2009, 03:28:54 am »

Quote from: Razzums on October 22, 2009, 07:49:47 pm

Quote from: Urist McDepravity on October 22, 2009, 07:23:37 pm
*Been checking dev-log for 2 years at least weekly and did read all 400 pages of the thread*
This is ONLY game which keeps me interested so long, and i believe it does not matter if release is delayed by few monthes as long as Toady keeps informing us about his work.
Failing to meet deadlines is common in software development, esp. when theres only one developer involved.

Ugh, i've made it a habbit to check this page and the development every morning for updates for the past 2 years. I'm so ready for this update.

I've been so into doing this that I even have the Dev Now page set as my home page. As for the ready for the update, I am just amazed at how much of the list is green compared to what it used to be.

Footkerchief · « **Reply #5973 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:01:07 am »

Pertinent hearsay from the "What turns you off" thread:

Quote from: PermanentInk on October 23, 2009, 03:41:12 am

At the meetup he sounded like he was in favor of doing the next release without the 40d16 stuff first to make sure it worked for everyone before messing around with it.

Thoughts? Personally I don't get any more FPS gains from 40d## than I did from Toady's first stab at partial print, but I would definitely miss the snazzy zooming and window expansion.

G-Flex · « **Reply #5974 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:16:49 am »

It's the kind of thing that's separate from what he's doing for this release and that can therefore easily be done afterwards with no real cost in development time, so I'm for it.

Eduren · « **Reply #5975 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:18:40 am »

I'm willing to wait for it, but not long. Those 40d## releases have made a huge difference for me.

G-Flex · « **Reply #5976 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:25:32 am »

Yeah. What I mean is that there's not going to be much of a difference if he releases it 2 weeks early to avoid the d# stuff, then releases it with the d# stuff 2 weeks later, rather than simply releasing it at the normal time with the stuff included.

Of course, that's a gross oversimplification, but if anything should get cut from this release, in my opinion it's that because it stands very easily on its own and doesn't really have anything to do with the game content in particular.

Toady One · « **Reply #5977 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:29:36 am »

If I remember the conversation there, what I said was that I'm going to be including a 40dish release in addition to the 40d# stuff to make sure that the few people that might end up getting cut out by 40d# get a chance to play the new game while we help them out. This is assuming there isn't some sort of magical happiness that makes everything all okay. Given the improvements many people got and the work the 40d# people have done, I think it's best to just release them all at once.

Footkerchief · « **Reply #5978 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:33:34 am »

Can't object to that.

CobaltKobold · « **Reply #5979 on:** October 23, 2009, 05:54:29 am »

Quote from: Footkerchief on October 22, 2009, 03:02:48 pm

1) materials get assigned to a "material graphics class"

I was just thinking how this release would make making visualisations harder if materials are no longer classed as 'metal' 'wood' etc. Really all you need are 'material' (maybe a few texture tags like you say) and a color or three.

Quote from: G-Flex on October 22, 2009, 03:10:37 pm

I think "weeks" is a little crazy. Seriously, I don't think it would take Toady several dozen man-hours just to do the busywork portion of it, and the more important parts pale in comparison to what he's doing now.

I mean, this release has taken a lot of tedious busywork as well, I'm sure, like material properties. I just think you're very seriously overestimating the amount of time requiring.

Let's extrapolate from known data.
Tiles require their own raw file. (-)
Toady has a parser for graphics raws. (+)
Toady does not have potential for arbitrary tokens (maybe- position rewrite might fix this by wayside)
Toady can leave all graphics as is using current tile/graphics system(+/-)
(that is, can just leave all things 'unreplaced' with an empty graphics set)
main reqs: trees t(ore and item), minerals t (ore and item), plants t vermin t status icons f workshop tiles f(probably t after custom wkshps) all buildings/constructions f all mid-construction buildings f flying projectiles f colocation animation f items f vapors f wagons f

Spoiler: hideously long tabulation of all 256 characters (click to show/hide)

So, 471+ objects to add graphical support for, 361+ of which need basic tile support.

This is just based on the wiki's estimate, there are definitely more than that (it said "some workshop tiles" I was likely to count it as one only)

And (though not for all) he'd need to add a token so the game can figure out where it goes, possibly expand the graphics parser so it can get multi-tile coordinates (butcher 0 0, butcher 0 1, etc), and load it up.

Also likely for the 361, potentially ha'ing to hunt down mid-code where the hard-coded character is and substitute 'tile-and-graphic' implementation for it. It would probably be easier to rip up the undergraphics engine again than to do this. And, then, again, needs to create a token set or summat to know which character's what, etc.

I think "several dozen man-hours" is certainly a good estimate of what would be required, and why Toady does not look forward to it. (There are also 121 characters that I'd class as 'font' which could easily be left alone in their uses- ex 'g' as 'g', check marks, quality tags, punctuation)

shiruba · « **Reply #5980 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:28:16 am »

isnt easier do to tile sets? rpgmaker style?
you know, a big png file with all tiles one beside another.
the game just needs to call x,y on them.
let them have a pink or gray color for in-game coloring (representing various materials).

example:

Code: [Select]

<pseudocode>

[Barrel]{1,1}
[Dog]{1,2}
[whatever]{1,3}
...

</pseudocode>

CobaltKobold · « **Reply #5981 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:46:15 am »

Yes, and that's how it does ~~the font and~~ the graphics.
The font it just specifies tile by 'character 0-255', generally in raws-

Spoiler: matgloss_wood (click to show/hide)

(40d raws anyway)

The deal is, those 471(+) tiles need to come out of a 256-character font, as-is. Creatures are currently handled that way-

Spoiler: graphics_example.txt (click to show/hide)

But, we don't know how many of those many hundreds of objects that canNOT be altered this way (basically, anything that isn't a creature, I counted 361, there are definitely way more) are hardcoded, and how easily the many objects that still get a minor (userdef) selection from the font (basically, anything else currently raw'd- trees, minerals, soil, plants) could be switched o'er to use the hybrid system like creatures do.

To point out just how much you might need, your generic workshop has two in-construction phases and is 3x3, so you need 27 raw entries to replace its graphics, and probably up to two places in code that define/draw them (during construction, completed)
edit: fixed up things, removed extra linebreaks

Neonivek · « **Reply #5982 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:50:17 am »

Quote

assuming there isn't some sort of magical happiness *Wink* *Wink*

Hmmm I see what Toady is trying to say, but how do I slip antidepressants into the water supply of every country in the world?

smjjames · « **Reply #5983 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:56:54 am »

Lol @ Neonivek

Anyways, you know the Myuzaki (however you spell it) movie Princess Mononoke? I kind of think of the new Titans and the Forgotten Ones as sort of like the 'walking gods' that are all over the place in that movie. Someone already gave that forest god with the saurian feet, flowers that grow and die with his footsteps, and the massive bramble of antlers as an example some pages back.

Neonivek · « **Reply #5984 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:59:55 am »

Well then we kinda have two ideas for Titans... They are both Loci spirits mind you... but they are either great animal spirits or primal energy/concept spirits. (and I guess both... a Polar Bear made of Ice for example)

I kinda wanted to include more qualities for the randomiser but I didn't really get very far. Maybe I should open up a thread and get other people to add some.

News:

Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items (Read 3663847 times)

Razzums

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

Neonivek

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

i2amroy

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

Footkerchief

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

G-Flex

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

Eduren

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

G-Flex

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

Toady One

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

Footkerchief

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

CobaltKobold

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

shiruba

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

CobaltKobold

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

Neonivek

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

smjjames

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items

Neonivek

Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items