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[Footkerchief]

Perhaps it refers to the way it creates caves.

Yeah, that is possible, although it would seem odd that he'd update all the other cave stuff first.

[Toady One]

I've copied the questions from after my last post off to my little text file, but I don't have time to finish them tonight.  Anyway, the process is underway.  The meetup and so on might delay it another day or two.

Yes, I am expecting a different conversation. Believe me, I hate to be a broken record as much as anyone. But it seems something or several somethings have changed between then and now. That post is dated from June. He mentions how the previous month was a "bad month" but seemed optimistic that he was well along his way. Then in August was the first DF Talk where he said he was pretty sure he could get it out by the end of the year. Now he's saying that he didn't gurrantee anything and that even releasing a cut version would be hard by the end of the year. That's a very different outlook and message then he was giving us back then

The quote for August sounds right.  I was optimistic, and I was pretty sure I could make it.  I'm not now, not about that particular estimate.  I don't remember exactly what happened in September, but October has been punctuated by several events that I didn't see coming.  I'm happy with pretty much all of them, but the release date got pushed a bit.  That, and it's just harder to count the time from further out.  Anyway, finishing in 70 days just doesn't seem reasonable now.  It wouldn't be impossible to get a cut version of Entity Positions+Squads together in November, but butchery, tests, the 40d# merge, etc. for December just looks more and more tight, on top of the iffiness of finishing that November goal and completely finishing off the underground this month.

[smjjames]

Tonight? You're up at 3 AM, lol. I'm on the east coast, so its almost 7 for me actually.

[shiruba]

I am grateful DF isnt Vaporware.

any dev speed >  no dev speed.

I get all cranky when there arent frequent updates, but hey, at least its not like I.V.A.N. that has ZERO development in the last few years.

[smjjames]

Or even Duke Nukem Forever, which was actually and truly cancelled earlier this year after more than a decade of stasis.

[Neruz]

Or even Duke Nukem Forever, which was actually and truly cancelled earlier this year after more than a decade of stasis.

Oh please, nobody seriously believed DNF was ever going to be done, not after they trolled pretty much the entire gaming world.

[Neonivek]

The last time he's answered any FotF questions was close to 3 weeks ago.

Personally I think the reason why Toady doesn't answer the future of the fortress very often is because if there is ONE thing that creates a lot of questions it is answering Future of the Fortress.

I wish I could create a flow chart but that would require a lot of work.

[Darkerson]

Don't worry toady, we know you'll get it done when you get it done!

[Dame de la Licorne]

I would prefer that Toady takes the time necessary to do what he's planned for this release, since IIRC his stated intention was to put in as many save-breaking changes as possible, to cut down on the potential of another long wait further down the road.  I'd rather have to wait a few extra months and have the new release contain the major things he'd wanted to put in than have to suffer another 18-month wait later.
Also, keep in mind that he's added several things to vanilla DF that weren't on the list at all (Arena Mode, anyone?), so that probably is contributing to the slower short-term development but will speed it up in the long-term.  And with the amount of time he's now spending on the underground and HFS, does anyone really expect him to do a slap-dash job of that?
I'm sure that when the release finally does get posted, it will be worth every minute of this seemingly endless wait.  And yes, there are times when I wonder if it will ever be done, but I have faith in Toady, that he won't leave his baby half-done, or let it be badly done.
Just my 2 cents.

[Darkerson]

I agree!

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

I've copied the questions from after my last post off to my little text file, but I don't have time to finish them tonight.  Anyway, the process is underway.  The meetup and so on might delay it another day or two.

Yes, I am expecting a different conversation. Believe me, I hate to be a broken record as much as anyone. But it seems something or several somethings have changed between then and now. That post is dated from June. He mentions how the previous month was a "bad month" but seemed optimistic that he was well along his way. Then in August was the first DF Talk where he said he was pretty sure he could get it out by the end of the year. Now he's saying that he didn't gurrantee anything and that even releasing a cut version would be hard by the end of the year. That's a very different outlook and message then he was giving us back then

The quote for August sounds right.  I was optimistic, and I was pretty sure I could make it.  I'm not now, not about that particular estimate.  I don't remember exactly what happened in September, but October has been punctuated by several events that I didn't see coming.  I'm happy with pretty much all of them, but the release date got pushed a bit.  That, and it's just harder to count the time from further out.  Anyway, finishing in 70 days just doesn't seem reasonable now.  It wouldn't be impossible to get a cut version of Entity Positions+Squads together in November, but butchery, tests, the 40d# merge, etc. for December just looks more and more tight, on top of the iffiness of finishing that November goal and completely finishing off the underground this month.

No worries Toady, I was predicting mid-January/February as the release day. I reckon most people would be happy with that as well.

[Mephansteras]

Any time I start worrying about DF's updates, I just think about Alien Swarm: Infested. Black Cat games claimed to have basically finished it, but it just sort of vanished at one point. Even during development they *might* put up some small bit of info every couple of months. It's no wonder everyone just shrugged and went away eventually.

DF doesn't have that concern because we all know what's going on with it. We worry about not having dev notes updated for over a week. Not 'no news in months', but 'no news in days'. I've never seen a game with this much transparency into the dev work. And it's because of that transparency that the donations keep flowing in, even without a release in over a year. We know what to expect with the next version, we know where we're at, and Toady keeps us all involved in the game through suggestions and Q&A sessions.

Take your time, Toady. I'm as impatient as everyone else to get my hands on the game, but not so much that I want you to sacrifice quality or anything to get it.

[dreiche2]

edit: I swear my posts are going through some sort of "hate filter" before people are reading them, as this is the second time in as many days that someone has thought I was getting worked up on this forum. People can have disagreements, discussions, whatever you want to call them, online (and in real life!) without being angry or upset. I don't think I or Footkerchief, even with his original post (which was 100% fine) are upset with one another or bickering. Yeah, we probably disagree or he thinks I'm being silly or whatever, but that's alright. People are allowed to disagree with each other, and I think we're all doing it in a calm, rational way!

I think the problem might be a certain sense of entitlement in your posts (and I'm not trying to pick a fight, just trying to explain). It's all fine to be disappointed about the delays, and it also seems valid to discuss whether they pose a problem for the DF 'project'. However, your posts make it seem like Toady owes us or you a release, and also as if he has somehow broken his word by potentially delaying DF beyond Christmas.

My impression for example was exactly in line with what has been described in Toady's quotes: 1), in the summer he had plans to release before the end of the year, but he didn't promise anything. And 2), I also remember that recently he had to explain that a release might after all not happen.

Similarly, you seem to think that you speak out for a significant part of the community ('people will get annoyed'), whereas I doubt that's true. Myself, like others who have posted here, hoped for but did not necessarily expect a release this year, and I can live with that it might not happen. After all this wait, it really doesn't make a difference, really.

[Neonivek]

At least Toady gives us updates.

Slayer Abridged is STILL saying it is going to release episode 6... over a year later. (I doubt he worked on it at all)

Same with Final Fantasy Abridged

[Areyar]

No pressure at all Toady1.
We have been eagerly following your every move for about a year now a few months extra is not going to chase away your loyal fanbase.
The running documentation on your progress and goals are as addictive as playing with the dorfs themselves. The recent addition of podcast recordings is great too.

Actually for myself, I hope to be able to adjust when exposed to all the new stuff you have been working on in a single heroic *update*. It's a bit scary.

edit: How about Elite4, that Braben has supposedly been working on since First Encounters came out prematurely in 95. Actually, that he planned to make an Elite4 has been the only information released ever.