Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 381 382 [383] 384 385 ... 1065

Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3657653 times)

Grek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5730 on: October 15, 2009, 09:07:14 pm »

The Pantheon for those spheres:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged

Quatch

  • Bay Watcher
  • [CURIOUSBEAST_ GRADSTUDENT]
    • View Profile
    • Twitch? Sometimes..
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5731 on: October 15, 2009, 09:17:54 pm »

-Deformity, Misery, Day, Animals, Poetry, Travelers

Vogons. Definatly. They came in the day, carried bablefish, and the rest falls under poetry.
Logged
SAVE THE PHILOSOPHER!
>>KillerClowns: It's faster to write "!!science!!" than any of the synonyms: "mad science", "dwarven science", or "crimes against the laws of god and man".
>>Orius: I plan my forts with some degree of paranoia.  It's kept me somewhat safe.

Hummingbird

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5732 on: October 15, 2009, 09:20:00 pm »

The Pantheon for those spheres:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Awesome.
Logged
But Elves aren't Vegetarians. They eat people.
So they are humanitarians.

Outcast Orange

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SOMETIMES_SQUID]
    • View Profile
    • The Outcast Orange
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5733 on: October 15, 2009, 09:27:26 pm »

I feel much more relieved after the last dev-update.
Thanks Toady!
Logged
[7:53:55 PM] Armok, why did you demand that I don't eat you?
[7:54:34 PM] [Armok]: woooooo

Burried Houses - Platform Explorer Demo H - Cloud Scream

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5734 on: October 15, 2009, 09:46:31 pm »

Anyhow now to generate properly.

-Nightmares, Longevity
-Night, Festivals, Moon, Darkness, Music
-Suicide, Festivals, Dance, Music, Song
-Loyalty, Oaths
-Peace (Huh, apperantly I actually can't go further with this. I should tell Toady perhaps?)
-Courage (Also has no where to go... Odd)

Still doesn't seem right. I don't think the generation is supposed to pick entirely at random. I think it actually picks from a smaller list of greater types or only types with physical manifestations. (Well for the subject I am drawing spheres for)

It basically tells me I am going to have to wait for the next release until I want to do this sort of generation.

Unless Toady is willing to reveal how the Spheres are chosen for certain creatures.
Logged

Dante

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dante likes cats for their corrupt intentions.
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5735 on: October 15, 2009, 09:47:14 pm »

When you think about it, any problems with sphere conflict will almost certainly resolve themselves.
There are a huge number of spheres at the moment. If Toady was going to hard-code a unique feature for each interaction of just two spheres, he'd have to specify n! different things. Which is a LOT.

So, he will presumably either
(a) trim down the number of spheres substantially, or
(b) increase the number of [CANNOT_OCCUR_TOGETHER] (or whatever it is) tags substantially, or
(c) code it so that sphere interactions will randomly create their own effects.

In the hardcoding case, he would be able to prevent clashes entirely.

In the random generation case, you'd simply get the occasional oddity: a Death sphere might cause wildlife to sporadically become Undead, and a Fire sphere might cause infrequent spontaneous combustion, so in conjunction you might have to encounter ever-burning skeletal elk.
Or you might get both seasonal flooding and seasonal wildfires on a map.
These weird things and contradictions aren't necessarily bad. They won't always make sense, but they would provide more variety than scripted sphere interactions.

Alternatively, since randomly generated sphere influences would almost certainly include simple variable tweaks based on associations such as "life span is associated with the sphere Time" or "mineral values are associated with the sphere Wealth", then conflicting spheres would simply cancel out, such as increased/decreased fecundity due to overlap of Fertility and Disease spheres.

Taal

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5736 on: October 15, 2009, 09:51:07 pm »

I dont know quite how it would work, but I would like to think that each sphere would have a large number of effects, with only a few being active, or perhaps randomly activiated throughout the game. So that even if you did figure out or were told what spheres affected your area, you would only have an idea of what to expect. It would allow for surprises and unexpected events.
Logged

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5737 on: October 15, 2009, 09:52:11 pm »

Contradictory spheres don't have to cancel eachother out (In fact oddly by the design of things... contradictory spheres go together but not as a subsphere.

They just cannot fight eachother in the same areas.

So a Death and Life creature could have a skeletal body but with flowering buds all over it. The creature could also be a Skeletal creature who regenerates body parts very quickly (Being granted sphere appropriate powers and a Sphere appropriate Body)

A Fire and Cold land could be a Plains that is constantly flame with chilling fire and Icy Rivers that burn everything to cinder.

Spheres can also rule over behavior allowing for creatures who are physically composed of one sphere by who act in accordance to another.

The real question is how do some of these odder spheres work.

I could understand a Child Sphere land having creatures who all appear to be children/young, but how does an Order sphere REALLY work? Heck how does a Freedom Sphere work? Doors cannot be locked? Trees with leaves that hover around it? Rivers that float above the ground?

Heck how do you represent some of these spheres physically? What does Marriage look like? What does Music Look like?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 10:00:08 pm by Neonivek »
Logged

Untelligent

  • Bay Watcher
  • I eat flesh!
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5738 on: October 15, 2009, 10:14:27 pm »

If I remember correctly, there ARE contradictory spheres that, rather than cancel each other out, simply can't be with each other in the same god (or creature, as the case will soon be).
Logged
The World Without Knifebear — A much safer world indeed.
regardless, the slime shooter will be completed, come hell or high water, which are both entirely plausible setbacks at this point.

CobaltKobold

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☼HOOD☼ ☼ROBE☼ ☼DAGGER☼ [TAIL]
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5739 on: October 15, 2009, 10:21:29 pm »

Music looks like ...what it needs to, to sound musical. Marriage ...well, it probably looks a lot like Fertility, but with more faith in whate'er arrangements are there. (Seriously, Toady, e'en humans aren't purely monogamous faith-beyond-death m/f like it is in DF)
When you think about it, any problems with sphere conflict will almost certainly resolve themselves.
There are a huge number of spheres at the moment. If Toady was going to hard-code a unique feature for each interaction of just two spheres, he'd have to specify n! different things. Which is a LOT.

So, he will presumably either
(a) trim down the number of spheres substantially, or
(b) increase the number of [CANNOT_OCCUR_TOGETHER] (or whatever it is) tags substantially, or
(c) code it so that sphere interactions will randomly create their own effects.
n*n-1, silly. Only n! if you want all n-sphere sphere interactions. Still.
(d)code it so that sphere interactions resolve less than randomly
 i. considering other spheres' twists to advantage (or specify) one sphere or other-
  ex: life-flowers-death could be either flowers live while all else is spooky-(un?)dead, or flowers are all brown and withered, but growing, in an otherwise verdant land
 ii. randomly deciding equal outcomes
  iib. calico i.e. partwise inactivation- patches of each at (more or less) random, or based on something else

Truly contrary spheres shouldn't really ACTUALLY exclude each other on lands- it could be a place of conflict, like you mention with your fire and cold (though it could also be a straight-up flaming plains, icy rivers). Whatthey're excluding is the middle.
Logged
Neither whole, nor broken. Interpreting this post is left as an exercise for the reader.
OCEANCLIFF seeding, high z-var(40d)
Tilesets

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5740 on: October 15, 2009, 10:24:00 pm »

If I remember correctly, there ARE contradictory spheres that, rather than cancel each other out, simply can't be with each other in the same god (or creature, as the case will soon be).

How it works is they chose 1-2 spheres. Then they generate friends of those spheres without using Parents or contradictory spheres.

So in theory, assuming the preclude list doesn't interfere with the first two spheres, it can be anything.
Logged

Grek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5741 on: October 15, 2009, 10:31:26 pm »

I could understand a Child Sphere land having creatures who all appear to be children/young, but how does an Order sphere REALLY work? Heck how does a Freedom Sphere work? Doors cannot be locked? Trees with leaves that hover around it? Rivers that float above the ground?

Heck how do you represent some of these spheres physically? What does Marriage look like? What does Music Look like?

Order land effects:
-Objects form rigid geometric figures
-Events happen daily/yearly with clockwork regularity
-Mechanical objects never break down/stick
-Unnaturally sharp definitions between the edges of forests/rivers/plains/mountains
-Lakes/ponds/clouds are perfect circles
-Flames/candles never flicker
-No changes in weather ever
-Bird eggs have hinged doors to let out the chick
-Cluttered workshops unclutter themselves
-Instant change between day and night.

Freedom land effects:
-Cages spontainously release people
-Knots untie themselves
-Fish escape from nets/hooks
-Cats/starving dwarves are unable to capture vermin
-Boots left outside on cold nights let themselves into the house
-Doors of prisons unlock themselves
-Items in locked chests rattle around trying to get loose
-Wagons try to chase butterflies
-Pixies steal the hammerer's hammer

Marriage creature effects:
-Creatures come in married pairs
-Creature eats only husbands/only wives
-Creature refuses to harm married couples
-Creature desires a mortal wife/husband

Music creature effects:
-Body produces music when moving but is silent when still
-Creature sings when speaking
-Siren songs
-Creature is lured/facinated by music
-Creature can make people spontaniously dance
Logged

KillerClowns

  • Bay Watcher
  • Demonologist
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5742 on: October 15, 2009, 10:36:00 pm »

The spheres don't HAVE to interact.  For instance, taking "Rainbows, Chaos, Water, Dusk, Weather, Luck" as my example, it could simply be each would be chosen to have a different effect on the creatures physiology.  I'm kind of guessing how the engine works, and I'm not feeling especially creative about it, but...

Water: The creature's basic body plan is that of a carp.
Chaos: Tentacles are added to this creature, and it is given the adjective "perpetually shifting."
Weather: The creature is surrounded by a perpetual fog
Rainbows: The creature is given rainbow coloration.
Dusk: The creatures is most active around dusk.
Luck: The creature is granted several minor boosts, but is also made more reckless.

A huge, six-tentacled carp.  It has a perpetually shifting appearance.  It is surrounded by a rainbow-colored fog.  It is most active at dusk.  It is powerful, but reckless.

EDIT: I notice that the example sphere creatures don't have such obvious sphere-to-form effects.  Still, we'll see how it turns out once we get a good look at these fine critters.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 10:51:12 pm by KillerClowns »
Logged
"A rational enemy is better than a foolish friend." -Arab proverb

smjjames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5743 on: October 15, 2009, 10:41:19 pm »

Quote
-Creature sings when speaking

Actually, I think its not so much as singing like an opera or musical, but singing like say whales or birds. So their language is musical.

You know, with these spheres encompassing the entire range from purest good to darkest evil (yes concepts do vary, I know that, and DF tends towards the darker side), I'm wondering if some of these titans are actually good guys, until you piss them off too much.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 10:47:06 pm by smjjames »
Logged

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5744 on: October 15, 2009, 10:52:43 pm »

It would be interesting is a creature under the sphere of music moves as if he was on some sort of metronome, its movements are predictable but at the same time consistant and unfaltering.

So while it make be easier to dodge it cannot be faltered off this unheard metronome making it much more dangerous.

Though another is a creature whos speed increases and decreases like the tempo in some songs. It could split its attacks into quarter notes giving a barage of less dangerous notes.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 381 382 [383] 384 385 ... 1065