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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3664669 times)

Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5265 on: October 03, 2009, 06:31:24 pm »

Quote from: Kaiser Reinhard
By the way, will we ever be able to have a operational fort and an active adventurer in the same world at the same time?

It depends on what you mean.  The world all advances at once, so the current adventurer retirement might be the closest you get to having an adventurer and then moving over to a fort.  There have been threads discussion the issues with temporarily suspending a fort.  It's something that would be nice to do, but it's hard to get it working right when an adventurer comes to visit and you then want to restart it later.  There are other things planned for the shorter term like being able to send out groups from your fortress which you might then be able to control during battles in a kind of time-stopped mode, but having something like that for a broader adventure wouldn't work very well (the closest we might get to anything like a player controlled adventurer during dwarf mode would be following a group on a longer campaign or something).

Quote from: Knight Otu
if castes in a species can have vastly different body sizes, or have a different set of the stout/narrow tags than others, how would armor clothing be handled for entities of that species? Would each caste have to make its own sets? Or would some castes be out of luck, clothing-wise?

Right now I'm passing on dealing with this one since it would be annoying to manage all of the different clothing.  I think critters will be able to wear whatever, though it might not work across races of different sizes.  There's also the matter of children growing up with a single caste to further complicate this.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen
There are a few tags I'd like to ask you to consider. ATTACK_STATE, ATTACK_TARGETSTATE, and ATTACK_CHARGE. The first two to determine the state you, or your opponent have to be in for the attack to be available (standing, prone, flying, swimming), and the third to explicitly designate the attack as a charge, foregoing the "You charge at" message and going to the attack text.

I'd really rather not get into this when the proper implementation of combat styles and so on might not be that far away, and that shouldn't be governed by specific creatures, though they'd likely have helper tags.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen
And one more, is the "BITE" attack in any way tied to the presence of teeth? Because for one, it would eventually be nice to have monsters with adamantine teeth, and it would also be odd if you slashed off the giant snake's poison teeth and still had its bite poison you.

There are several different ways to designate body part groups for an attack.  You can pick an entire body part, you can pick a tissue layer within a body part, you can pick all of a certain kind of child body part to a designated part (teeth as child BP of the head, grouped together if you want even if different kinds of teeth are defined), and also tissues in child bps of a designated part (using nails/claws on all the fingers/toes which are the child of a hand/foot in a single attack).

A human's scratch and bite look like this for instance

[ATTACK:SCRATCH:CHILD_TISSUE_LAYER_GROUP:BY_TYPE:GRASP:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL]
   [ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
   [ATTACK_VERB:scratch:scratches]
   [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
   [ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
   [ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
   [ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
   [ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
   [ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
   [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
   [ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
   [ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
   [ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
   [ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]


Quote from: BloodBeard
Will how kings and queens come to power be changed to reflect actual monarchies? Like when a king or queen dies, their oldest child or the nearest of kin becomes the new monarch.

This already happens in world generation.  In-game succession is a slightly harder problem that is up on dev_next.  It might get a placeholder sooner than that but I can't guarantee anything.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5266 on: October 03, 2009, 06:41:52 pm »

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Sunday

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5267 on: October 03, 2009, 06:49:16 pm »

Venoms are going to be sweet!  Shutting down lungs!  Yes!

I don't remember if this has been asked, but:
Are some of the extracts (Golden Salve, frex) going to be able to cure/help cure certain venoms?  If you have a venom that shuts down something's heart, could you feed it an extract to kickstart the organ?
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5268 on: October 03, 2009, 08:29:22 pm »

Goodness I feel so guilty.

On the plus side... the MOST exciting thing I have heard so far is

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Fieari

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5269 on: October 03, 2009, 08:59:44 pm »

Quote from: Dev_now 9/18/09
...Now that soap isn't as worthless, it seems people want its making moved out of the alchemist's workshop, which was just something for that building to do ever since I took antidotes out long ago...

If you go back further, I'm sure he talks about dropping antidotes from this release, but this is his most recent mention of it.  It's not in.  On the other hand, aquired immunity after repeated low dose exposure apparently IS in.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5270 on: October 03, 2009, 09:19:40 pm »

So, all we have to do is repeatedly expose our dwarves to poisons at low dosages and we will end up with immortal superdwarves! MWAHAHAHA!

Seriously though, there are poisons/toxins/venoms that are fatal even at low dosages.

Great fun will be had when DF replicates the most powerful toxins/venoms in the animal world in RL.

Also in regards to the edge and penetrate 100 perc thing which I think is for the vulture thingy. Does that mean it has razor sharp feathers and that it's entire wing is a blade?

After this update, we are really going to have to figure out the scale just to envision how big the new titans and stuff really are.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5271 on: October 03, 2009, 09:34:42 pm »

I barely understand how toxin immunity functions even after reading it (apperantly your immune system helps or something)

However as I understand it... Poison immunity is usually non-pernament and specific to poisons. (It is more accurately Tollerance) and often requires repeated building for long periods of time. It can become pernament.

Arsenic for example can be built a resistance to because your Liver, if given arsenic at low low doses, will produce something that counters that but wouldn't if you took a lethal dose. Over time you can gain resistance and survive lethal doses

Mercury is an example of a poison that cannot become immune to and history is ridden with people who took mercury at low doses for long periods of their lives and still suffered from its toxicity.

If only there was someone more knowledgable on this subject then I am, who just read an internet article of dubiuous accuracy.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 10:25:33 pm by Neonivek »
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Outcast Orange

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5272 on: October 03, 2009, 10:22:16 pm »

From now one, whenever I see a hawk or vulture, I'll fondly think about Dwarf Fortress.
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BloodBeard

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5273 on: October 03, 2009, 11:09:10 pm »

Quote from: BloodBeard
Will how kings and queens come to power be changed to reflect actual monarchies? Like when a king or queen dies, their oldest child or the nearest of kin becomes the new monarch.

This already happens in world generation.  In-game succession is a slightly harder problem that is up on dev_next.  It might get a placeholder sooner than that but I can't guarantee anything.

Looking into this more closely, I do see now that kingship can be past down to their children, but in many cases it has been past down to completely unrelated dwarves, even when the passing ruler has many living children. I've noticed that this seems to happen more often when the passing ruler's life is cut short or/and their surviving children are very young. Is there an age limit to becoming king?

In the cases where kingship is passed down to their children, i've noticed that it's seemingly picked at random among them. Call me old fashioned but I think the eldest child should be next in line, unless dwarves are picky about their successor and force their children into competing with one another  :-X

SirPenguin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5274 on: October 03, 2009, 11:15:28 pm »

Toady,

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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5275 on: October 03, 2009, 11:22:32 pm »

There are several different ways to designate body part groups for an attack.  You can pick an entire body part, you can pick a tissue layer within a body part, you can pick all of a certain kind of child body part to a designated part (teeth as child BP of the head, grouped together if you want even if different kinds of teeth are defined), and also tissues in child bps of a designated part (using nails/claws on all the fingers/toes which are the child of a hand/foot in a single attack).

Holy god that's a lot of options.

Are some of the extracts (Golden Salve, frex) going to be able to cure/help cure certain venoms?  If you have a venom that shuts down something's heart, could you feed it an extract to kickstart the organ?
If you go back further, I'm sure he talks about dropping antidotes from this release, but this is his most recent mention of it.  It's not in.  On the other hand, aquired immunity after repeated low dose exposure apparently IS in.

Yeah, I can't find a direct quote either, but I'm pretty sure there won't be any medicines yet.

The dev log also mentions "creature/caste specific immunities to poisons and developing resistance over multiple exposures if an effect is flagged to allow this."  So that covers what Neonivek's talking about -- you can make it so some poisons don't allow a resistance/tolerance to build up.

I believe resistance to poisons in general is also altered by the DISEASE_RESISTANCE attribute.

Also in regards to the edge and penetrate 100 perc thing which I think is for the vulture thingy. Does that mean it has razor sharp feathers and that it's entire wing is a blade?

Those attack parameters are just for its bite attack, so that it can deal a nice slicing chomp.  They don't affect its other attack (a kick) and it doesn't have any way of attacking with its wings.

Toady,

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Yeah, it was covered recently.

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Warlord255

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5276 on: October 03, 2009, 11:39:00 pm »

Having no antidotes whatsoever seems like a gross oversight... then again, the current method for acquiring them (gutting one of the creatures that would've poisoned you) is pretty weak. Still, without any countermeasure other than "Get well soon!", it seems like our dwarves are destined to die off in droves.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5277 on: October 03, 2009, 11:44:29 pm »

Having no antidotes whatsoever seems like a gross oversight... then again, the current method for acquiring them (gutting one of the creatures that would've poisoned you) is pretty weak. Still, without any countermeasure other than "Get well soon!", it seems like our dwarves are destined to die off in droves.

There are some Antidotes (or Remedy) I've heard of that arn't actually made of venom.

The only one I heard of was a Honey and Opium mixture but I don't remember what it was for.

A Fictional one was in Xena there was a spice, popular food spice, that could cause blindness if it got in your eyes somehow. The cure was a Mandrake Root mixture.

The only problem I forsee we may have hit is that poisons are seriously dangerous and can easily make Flame breath look like minty summer breeze. Poison just flattens you and unless your prepared for that specific poison it seems like it could easily end in death.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 11:47:33 pm by Neonivek »
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5278 on: October 04, 2009, 12:23:20 am »

Having no antidotes whatsoever seems like a gross oversight... then again, the current method for acquiring them (gutting one of the creatures that would've poisoned you) is pretty weak. Still, without any countermeasure other than "Get well soon!", it seems like our dwarves are destined to die off in droves.

It's not an oversight, just one of the zillion things this release doesn't have time for.  I don't think you'll see TOO many dwarves dying -- a lot of poisons will be nonlethal and wear off after a while, plus you can kill the bad things first, plus the game needs to have additional challenges of this kind available to the more experienced and daring players.  If you can't deal with a few dead dwarves, don't delve too deep!

The only problem I forsee we may have hit is that poisons are seriously dangerous and can easily make Flame breath look like minty summer breeze. Poison just flattens you and unless your prepared for that specific poison it seems like it could easily end in death.

Flame breath IS practically minty summer breeze right now.  Have you seen what champions do to dragons in the current version?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 12:27:44 am by Footkerchief »
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5279 on: October 04, 2009, 12:28:51 am »

Yeah Toady didn't go overboard with poisons just yet. No Heavy Metal poisoning from Magmamen.

Quote
If you can't deal with a few dead dwarves, don't delve too deep!

Havn't you been reading? Dwarves shouldn't die EVER! Except when you want them to.

I am not sure if that is flaming/trolling or social commentary. Such a fine line. I really hope it is on the "Social commentary" side...

UGH SOCIAL STIGMA!!! SIGMA!!!
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 12:31:23 am by Neonivek »
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