Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 337 338 [339] 340 341 ... 1065

Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3628196 times)

CobaltKobold

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☼HOOD☼ ☼ROBE☼ ☼DAGGER☼ [TAIL]
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5070 on: September 27, 2009, 12:08:48 am »

On the subject of stone naming, I prefer the scientific/current approach; it gets me interested in the geology when I can look up the real rocks online and learn more about them rather than generalizing it as "gray rock" as a fantasy-type system might, geologer positions nonwithstanding.

In other words, it makes me feel more dwarfy.
I agree.
Leave as-is.
The names are correct. If it isn't broke, why fix it?
Logged
Neither whole, nor broken. Interpreting this post is left as an exercise for the reader.
OCEANCLIFF seeding, high z-var(40d)
Tilesets

Michael

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5071 on: September 27, 2009, 12:32:39 am »

An individual educational game may be quite fanciful as a whole, but still needs to be realistic in what it claims to teach.

What does DF claim to teach again? ;)
Nothing.  Which comes back to my original point:

Since DF was not intended to be a geology-teaching game, and was furthermore designed by a mathematician rather than a geologist, the information embedded in it is not likely up to the quality standards that would be expected of an actual geology-teaching game.  Even though the quantity is impressive....

It would be interesting though, to point a genuine geology professor at DF and see what he thinks.  The problem would be finding one with the patience to learn enough of the game to actually start digging.
Logged

Footkerchief

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Juffo-Wup is strong in this place.
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5072 on: September 27, 2009, 12:47:04 am »

It would be interesting though, to point a genuine geology professor at DF and see what he thinks.  The problem would be finding one with the patience to learn enough of the game to actually start digging.

Knowing geologists, they'd be more likely to get interested if you told them the game is about booze.
Logged

kiffer.geo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5073 on: September 27, 2009, 02:27:37 am »

It would be interesting though, to point a genuine geology professor at DF and see what he thinks.  The problem would be finding one with the patience to learn enough of the game to actually start digging.

Knowing geologists, they'd be more likely to get interested if you told them the game is about booze.

I'm a geologist, the booze angle would drag then in only if they were the ones getting the booze... I've a couple of geological gripes with DF but hey, it's a game.
 I could make a few suggestions but I think some of them would damage gameplay (or at least not add as much as would justify the changes, but reasonable things that I would like to see include dykes of igneous rock, spaning Z-levels but maybe only as thick as a vein of ore but coming right from the bottom of the map to the top/near the top... Faults with fault gouge and where the rock has moved you should see a visible sign of the movement like off setting an ore body/other feature if it is cut by the fault...)  and some would things might soak up too much processor time (either during world gen or the game itself... finite element arrays to handle flows though rock/soil layers... Allowing for rates and direction of flow/seepage to be found for any tile, based on pressure of the fluid and porosity/permeability of the rock/soil/free space).
Actually... How does toady handle flows at the moment? I remember something about water teleporting to the front of the flow? How is pressure/head calculated? 

Reading about the new underground features I think things are about to get less geologicaly realistic and more underdarkish ... Which is probably better in many ways for a game...

Logged

G-Flex

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5074 on: September 27, 2009, 02:54:39 am »

You can always feel free to type out whatever you want Toady's way, I'm sure. The geology of the game will be getting overhauled at some point or another, considering how ore veins and layers and such are still basically what they were in the 2D version, so I imagine it would be good for him to have that information, even if he doesn't follow it to the letter or whatever.
Logged
There are 2 types of people in the world: Those who understand hexadecimal, and those who don't.
Visit the #Bay12Games IRC channel on NewNet
== Human Renovation: My Deus Ex mod/fan patch (v1.30, updated 5/31/2012) ==

CobaltKobold

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☼HOOD☼ ☼ROBE☼ ☼DAGGER☼ [TAIL]
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5075 on: September 27, 2009, 03:17:39 am »

It would be interesting though, to point a genuine geology professor at DF and see what he thinks.  The problem would be finding one with the patience to learn enough of the game to actually start digging.

Knowing geologists, they'd be more likely to get interested if you told them the game is about booze.

I'm a geologist, the booze angle would drag then in only if they were the ones getting the booze... I've a couple of geological gripes with DF but hey, it's a game.
 I could make a few suggestions but I think some of them would damage gameplay (or at least not add as much as would justify the changes, but reasonable things that I would like to see include dykes of igneous rock, spaning Z-levels but maybe only as thick as a vein of ore but coming right from the bottom of the map to the top/near the top... Faults with fault gouge and where the rock has moved you should see a visible sign of the movement like off setting an ore body/other feature if it is cut by the fault...)  and some would things might soak up too much processor time (either during world gen or the game itself... finite element arrays to handle flows though rock/soil layers... Allowing for rates and direction of flow/seepage to be found for any tile, based on pressure of the fluid and porosity/permeability of the rock/soil/free space).
Actually... How does toady handle flows at the moment? I remember something about water teleporting to the front of the flow? How is pressure/head calculated? 

Reading about the new underground features I think things are about to get less geologicaly realistic and more underdarkish ... Which is probably better in many ways for a game...


Water pressure is purely hydrostatic- only gravitational potential energy. I believe porosity is zero, except for aquifers, which have effectively unlimited water generation/consumption potential, depending on how you dig into it.

I understand flows less well, but I believe there is somehow a flowing/not flowing state for water- if it's flowing, it check nearby for where it can flow to, and, to mimick hydrostatic pressure, it'll just include the entire body of water (or magma, if you pump it- otherwise, it is chunky and ignores pressure) for a lower connected place to flow to, as though it pushed the water there. I believe the lower the place is, the faster it will flow, but this is just speculating on what others said.

As for underground turning into underdark/lost world-type thing, this is indeed more fantastical, and meant to make the underground into more of a continuing threat like it was in 2d days, rather than being geologically realistic. The shots of the non-cave bits seem to indicate that the minerals themselves are generated the same way:plum-puddingish style. To me, having read about Anaconda copper mines, the veins are hilariously small. (And two-dimensional, which is a big flaw, I know.)

Though, I hear there are ways for bubbly caverns to form, if I remember a fantasy novel correctly (I pick up information in odd places)- if water is flowing through and rolls loose stone around, hollowing one out? I don't know if it's actual or not.

edit: There's a mod/project floating around somewhere that's aimed at finding and inputting the numbers on various materials(melting points, shear strength, etc) to fix them to fit reality where they don't already.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 03:20:23 am by CobaltKobold »
Logged
Neither whole, nor broken. Interpreting this post is left as an exercise for the reader.
OCEANCLIFF seeding, high z-var(40d)
Tilesets

jamoecw

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5076 on: September 27, 2009, 03:22:44 am »

kiffer.geo:
being able to recreate or simulate ancient siege defenses has a lot to do with realistic terrain, then there is the whole digging into rock type stuff dealing with the science of tunnels and mines, which is all geology.  so if you are so inclined i would second that vote for you to write up what you know, at the very least it will be an interesting read.
Logged

Grand_Marquis

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5077 on: September 27, 2009, 06:26:15 am »

Quote from: Brown Moses
[veiled question about guns]
Nope.
Quote from: Brown Moses
[veiled question about guns]
Nope.
Quote from: Brown Moses
[veiled question about guns]
Nope.
Quote from: Brown Moses
[veiled question about guns]
Nope.
Quote from: Brown Moses
[veiled question about guns]
Nope.
Quote from: Brown Moses
[veiled question about guns]
Nope.

Hahaha...I get the impression Toady isn't a fan of guns in his fantasy worlds. :D
I found that part amusing.

Of course, ballista-type weapons are feasible.  It's been a while since I've played, but I remember some kind of catapult-type things already available, but sort of placeholderish in how they operate (or something). I think being able to have your Dwarves construct ranged weapons in a more organically-designed style would be cool.  As in: assigning dwarves to build a bow of arbitrary size, which uses whole logs as bolts, if you wanted (especially if it took thread-strength into consideration, allowing for hilarious catastrophic failures).  Or having a catapult on wheels with an iron cylinder attached to it that doubles as a ram.  Or trebuchets (woo! Trebuchets!  ;D) etc. 
Logged

Vattic

  • Bay Watcher
  • bibo ergo sum
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5078 on: September 27, 2009, 08:02:22 am »

Currently you can get towercaps growing on all muddy underground tiles by discovering either an underground river or pool. How, if they make any difference, will the new underground features change this?

Personally I'd like to see more natural underground plants found on all maps with a long lived underground. Strange glowing mushrooms anyone?
Logged
6 out of 7 dwarves aren't Happy.
How To Generate Small Islands

InsanityPrelude

  • Bay Watcher
  • O SHI--
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5079 on: September 27, 2009, 12:20:38 pm »

Custom workshops = DO WANT. I can't wait to give this release a try!
Logged
Forget down stairs, make an up stair
And then what?  Mine the sky? . . .  Actually, that'd be awesome.

BigFatDwarf

  • Bay Watcher
  • The irony ... it doesn't burn?
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5080 on: September 27, 2009, 02:24:32 pm »

Custom workshops = DO WANT. I can't wait to give this release a try!

Same here. They'd give an immense value to all great mods.
  That and the ability to shit constantly through skin.
Logged
I loaded up my save in the new version, spent a minute trying to find my archery range before figuring it was the room with Xs down both sides: bins of ammo and archery targets.
Urist McCrossbower cancells practice crossbowery: Unsure of which end of the room to shoot at.

Shrike

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5081 on: September 27, 2009, 04:27:15 pm »

I wonder. Have other people's more conservative Dwarves started holding endless meetings with the mayor and countess yelling about the changes to health care?
Logged

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5082 on: September 27, 2009, 04:36:03 pm »

I wonder. Have other people's more conservative Dwarves started holding endless meetings with the mayor and countess yelling about the changes to health care?

Sometimes I wonder if that Mayor is actually doing any work. The Engravers really should find something else to engrave about then what the Mayor happened to eat that day.
Logged

Dakk

  • Bay Watcher
  • BLARAGLGLGL!
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5083 on: September 27, 2009, 07:25:16 pm »

I wonder. Have other people's more conservative Dwarves started holding endless meetings with the mayor and countess yelling about the changes to health care?

Sometimes I wonder if that Mayor is actually doing any work. The Engravers really should find something else to engrave about then what the Mayor happened to eat that day.

I see what you did there.

Regarding the geology thing, I think DF actually replicates multi z level mineral veins, but only for metals, oddly, I do have a number of fortresses with multi z levels gold/silver veins, not to mention the pretty blue thing.

Logged
Code: [Select]
    ︠     ︡
 ノ          ﺍ
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)  ┻━┻

Table flipping, singed style.

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5084 on: September 27, 2009, 07:45:34 pm »

Quote
ballista-type weapons are feasible.  It's been a while since I've played, but I remember some kind of catapult-type things already available

There are Catapults and Balistae

Though I still don't know if they are a devistating attack or an instant kill.

Has anyone survived a hit?
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 337 338 [339] 340 341 ... 1065