Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[GaGrin]

The silk-shirt thing's got me wondering if that inter-penetration of material layers will work at all.  Driving metal armours into flesh, cloth-fibres into open-wounds and the like - increasing the difficulty of treatment and chance of infection in some cases.

Boggles the mind to think this sort of thing is within distance for being counted as a sensible addition to the game.

[shiruba]

The silk-shirt thing's got me wondering if that inter-penetration of material layers will work at all.  Driving metal armours into flesh, cloth-fibres into open-wounds and the like - increasing the difficulty of treatment and chance of infection in some cases.

Boggles the mind to think this sort of thing is within distance for being counted as a sensible addition to the game.

to be honest, this type of thing creeps me out... i love how roguelikes are inclined to be detailed about combat and death (IVAN´s death messages are uber-awesome), however I think things starts to get a bit silly when they get down to "you managed to hit 4 of the left row of teeth, managing to sever nerves A, B and C! CRITICAL STRIKE! HIS CARDIOIMMUNONEURAL SYSTEM's serotonin production was changed by 4,32%...."*

Google the video for "The hardest game ever tutorial", its a parody with the same concerns I have. and its funny!


*May not mean anything at all. maybe.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Actually, it would be nice to actually have that kinda detail, even if it wouldn't be as good to always see it displayed. For example, if a medical/anatomy skill is added, it could determine what information you receive during combat. Starting from "Its head is bruised!", and all the way to the individual bones and muscles. Maybe even

The elf drinks a mug of dwarven ale! The dwarven ale strikes the elf in the brain! 34491043 of the elf's brain's neurons have been incinerated!

And I doubt DF will ever beat Derek Smart's Battlecruiser series in terms of incomprehensibility. In DF, at least you have a menu that lists the available keys, and some text next to the keys that gives a brief explanation of what does what. Or, failing that, an in-game list of keys with short descriptions.

[GaGrin]

The most significant addition today was an overall notion of a "square" shot, so that, say, a crossbow bolt can hit full force but just not break a bone because it didn't have a line on the center of the part. Attacks with better relative rolls and relative contact areas are more likely to get a chance to hit all of the tissues, and only strikes that hit all of the tissues get a chance at driving through a path of organs as well. This also stops weapons like long swords and axes from severing everything they hit, since on close rolls they will just end up giving nasty slashes instead that avoid the bones and organs entirely, even if the force of the swing is sufficient to cleave all the way through the body.

Woot! This is probably one of the single most important balancing/realism features for wound results as it allows creatures of relatively infinite power to land less than completely lethal blows; making strength/power more about damage potential, and skill more about reaching that potential.

[Grue]

to be honest, this type of thing creeps me out... i love how roguelikes are inclined to be detailed about combat and death (IVAN´s death messages are uber-awesome), however I think things starts to get a bit silly when they get down to "you managed to hit 4 of the left row of teeth, managing to sever nerves A, B and C! CRITICAL STRIKE! HIS CARDIOIMMUNONEURAL SYSTEM's serotonin production was changed by 4,32%...."*

You have just described Armok 1!

[Footkerchief]

Woot! This is probably one of the single most important balancing/realism features for wound results as it allows creatures of relatively infinite power to land less than completely lethal blows; making strength/power more about damage potential, and skill more about reaching that potential.

Yeah, this among other things should reduce the propensity of piercing weapons to hit an infinite number of organs.

It sounds like bludgeoning damage hasn't been merged with slash/pierce, even though contact areas are being tracked now.  Is it being kept separate just for combat text purposes or something?

[Neonivek]

It could be because Slashing and Piercing damage go together quite easily. Many things that peirce also cut.

While Bludgeon damage is usually seperate. Even a Spiked mace peirces before it bludgeons.

[smjjames]

Regarding the latest dev log, what about considering arteries? A nasty gash can still prove fatal even if it doesn't sever the limb or slice any organs but there is a chance for it to slice a major artery if it's deep enough. A gash to the throat still has a high chance of bieng fatal, even if it doesn't cut the artery.

Regarding the new healthcare system, will there be a form of combat medicine where the docs can quickly run out to an injured dwarf and try to patch up the bleeding or at least keep them alive until they get to a field hospital or whatever. The Geneva convention doesn't exist in DF, so we can't count on anything like that.

[Vattic]

I highly doubt the silk arrow removal thing is going in, though.

It would be a shame if it wasn't at some point. It would be nice to have the midnight blue silk uniforms do more than just look cool.

The silk-shirt thing's got me wondering if that inter-penetration of material layers will work at all.  Driving metal armours into flesh, cloth-fibres into open-wounds and the like - increasing the difficulty of treatment and chance of infection in some cases.

Boggles the mind to think this sort of thing is within distance for being counted as a sensible addition to the game.

Exactly what I was getting at. Hearing about how layers of flesh can interact, with the reported attack on the farmer, I wondered about how other layers might like clothing and armour.

[Protactinium]

half-stamped maille
...

+10 bonus points for anyone who caught the maille joke in there.

Bonus points mine?

Edit: Damnit, didn't notice Kidiri say this one.

[Thursday Postal]

Scamps is okay, though he's still a bit lethargic, and he detests his new radar collar, though it stops him from chewing on his wounded nether regions, so it is for the best.

Catsplosion Averted!

[AbuDhabi]

Also regarding health care: Will there be neurosurgery?

I'm not sure how to grep this topic for the answer, if it was asked before - in that case, sorry.

[Baughn]

Will there be.. what?

Let me be the first to welcome our new ham-handed iron-age neurosurgeon overlords. Now keep that knife away from me!

[Timst]

Hm, apart from lobotomy (which is, according to wikipedia, rather easy to do even with crude tools), I don't think dwarves could handle a so complicated job.

[Footkerchief]

Regarding the latest dev log, what about considering arteries? A nasty gash can still prove fatal even if it doesn't sever the limb or slice any organs but there is a chance for it to slice a major artery if it's deep enough. A gash to the throat still has a high chance of bieng fatal, even if it doesn't cut the artery.

This came up in the other thread:

Yeah, it's going to be something like the latter, with VASCULAR meaning that the part bleeds when struck, and ARTERIES meaning it has a chance to really cause trouble.

So it sounds like arteries are handled as a body part property (or maybe a tissue property?), but modders could of course add arteries as a separate body part instead, like a miniature internal organ.

Concerning neurosurgery, I hope we get trepanation at least.


Look at these smiling patients!

Trepanation [...] is a medical intervention in which a hole is drilled or scraped into the human skull, thus exposing the dura mater in order to treat health problems related to intracranial diseases.

[...]

Evidence also suggests that trepanation was primitive emergency surgery after head wounds[2] to remove shattered bits of bone from a fractured skull and clean out the blood that often pools under the skull after a blow to the head. Such injuries were typical for primitive weaponry such as slings and war clubs.

[...]

Trepanation is perhaps the oldest surgical procedure for which there is evidence,[4] and in some areas may have been quite widespread. Out of 120 prehistoric skulls found at one burial site in France dated to 6500 BC, 40 had trepanation holes.[5] Many prehistoric and premodern patients had signs of their skull structure healing; suggesting that many of those subjected to the surgery survived.

Trepanation was also practiced in the classical and Renaissance periods. Hippocrates gave specific directions on the procedure from its evolution through the Greek age, and Galen also elaborates on the procedure.

During the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, trepanation was practiced as a cure for various ailments, including seizures and skull fractures. Out of eight skulls with trepanations from the 6th-8th centuries found in southwestern Germany, seven skulls show clear evidence of healing and survival after trepanation suggesting that the survival rate of the operations was high and the infection rate was low.[2]

[...]

Later studies documented cases identified from a range of sites in Oaxaca and central Mexico, such as Tilantongo, Oaxaca and the major Zapotec site of Monte Albán. Two specimens from the Tlatilco civilization's homelands (which flourished around 1400 BC) indicate the practice has a lengthy tradition.[8]