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[Areyar]

Regarding war hammers, making them as heavy as possible is an extremely awful idea.

You need to be able to actually swing the thing. Fast and accurately. They tended to have relatively small (but dense) heads, often with a sort of pick on one side of it.

Yes, something like this:


That's...well, hammer that's fit for war.

The HUGE hammer/thing is maul/sledgehammer.

With such a warhammer (a historically correct one, not a Warhammer TM crushing one), I'd vote for miner'skill giving 50% innate hammerwieding skill. (or something more basic, yet specific, such as swing-accuracy)
The skill to accurately place a pick or hammer or axe on target with force is the same.
Yielding it to deadly purposes requires knowledge of what to target though. While capping a knee or breaking a hand is painfull and debillitating, yet crushing a skull or spine is more effective in battle.

ps I don't think that cattle pen idea will work, at least not different from currently. If graspers are required to climb a rope, nothing can be carried while climbing or descending a rope. So getting livestock out would still requires going through an airlock.

[zchris13]

What you are thinking of is several skills for mining and warhammering.
A skill, that is shared by mining and warhammer, for hit accuracy, and two, one for mining and one for warhammer that determine how effective it is, and how good you are at it.

The shared skill is swinging it, and the seperate skills are for the skill of useing it.

[Neoskel]

What you are thinking of is several skills for mining and warhammering.
A skill, that is shared by mining and warhammer, for hit accuracy, and two, one for mining and one for warhammer that determine how effective it is, and how good you are at it.

The shared skill is swinging it, and the seperate skills are for the skill of useing it.

Actually, i think you are mistaken. The skills don't have to change structure at all. Toady mentioned he was working on 'skill synergies' i.e. that certain skills would accent each other. So having mining skill would give you a boost to hammer skill, woodcutting would give a bonus to axe skill, etc.

[Areyar]

What you are thinking of is several skills for mining and warhammering.
A skill, that is shared by mining and warhammer, for hit accuracy, and two, one for mining and one for warhammer that determine how effective it is, and how good you are at it.

The shared skill is swinging it, and the seperate skills are for the skill of useing it.

Actually, i think you are mistaken. The skills don't have to change structure at all. Toady mentioned he was working on 'skill synergies' i.e. that certain skills would accent each other. So having mining skill would give you a boost to hammer skill, woodcutting would give a bonus to axe skill, etc.

Rely on the Toad.
Synergies at a basic level may be what would be best, yes. (though a shared basic skill or ability would work as well as synergy bonusses)

[Torham]

Hello, everyone.
First of all I am a huge fan of DF, and have been for some time. These are very exciting times with the new release coming along and i have been checking the progress pretty much every day. I would like to throw one suggestion out there. I don't know if it was talked about sometimes before, if yes, than just shut me up...
Ok here goes:
I find it very laborous process to clear up all the rubbish after each goblin ambush and siege, where every goblin carrying full suit of armour and clothing, it takes very long time to clear the battlefield afterwards. It also seem that the more items you have the slower the game runs(especially with hundreds of suits of useless goblin clothing. My best strategy so far has been capturing live goblins in burnable cages and then throwing them in magma (VERY EVIL!!)to cut down on hauling jobs and clutter. I just however had an idea that might solve this problem very easily. I thought it would be excellent idea to be able to burn refuse stockpiles... you know set them on fire. Say we would have an option to burn refuse stockpile, a dwarf would come with few logs of wood/coal/barrel of alcohol and burn the whole stockpile down. Only the fire resistant items would be left, say bones and iron armours/weapons. This way after a big battle you would just put a refuse stockpile in the middle of battlefield, haul all the crap onto it and burn it all down. Then you would just need to pick through smoldering remains and ashes for few useful items.

[Areyar]

Hey and welcome.

yeah, everybody who sticks with DF for long enough to get goblin ambushes and survive them regularly has been confounded by the same problem.
Many complaints, suggestions and coping strategies have been offered over time.

your suggestion would be nice and plausible, if only we could make fire in fortressmode as well as adventurermode.
The closest we can get now is 'applied magma'.
for ultimate destruction however the bridge 'atom smasher' is advised.
Fire and light is planned however... for the 'burrows arc' IIRC.
I'm not completely sure however, as Toady already added some burrows features (alert zones etc) in this next release.

My personal suggestion was accelerated degradation from the elements if outside, in water, etc.

[Warlord255]

On the subject of labor -> weapon synergies; None of them should give more than a 10% bonus, or else it might disrupt game balance.

That said, I can't come up with any beyond Woodcutting and Mining; maybe they should be non-exclusive, so that the general labor of "swinging stuff" translates to added weapon skill.

[Neonivek]

I think every humanoid race should be able do to anything, dwarves should only do "dwarven" things better

The issue is that that in turn eliminates a lot of the culture and morality from the many races while your playing them and often advantages or minor disadvantages break the feeling that it is a unique race but rather a set of attributes (With exceptions of course but I am speaking as a whole)

For example, if your playing a Race that things murder is wrong why should assasinating your own people be acceptable? Toady doesn't want to eliminate the ability to do so but so much as when you do something strongly against the morality of the race your playing you are demonstrating an extreme shift in ethics in that town/fortress/retreat and thus bad things will happen such as the bulk of your population abandoning you. There is more but that is just a small introduction to the subject.

[Dante]

My best strategy so far has been capturing live goblins in burnable cages and then throwing them in magma (VERY EVIL!!)to cut down on hauling jobs and clutter.

If they burn in a cage from a cage trap doesn't this make all their equipment reappear in the trap anyway, by some magic bug?

As for poison, if there were tokens such as [ETHIC:USE_POISON_UNACCEPTABLE] which were applied by default to the dwarf entity, it would pretty much solve the problem, as shiruba's tribe of jungle dwarves with poison blowdarts could be easily modded in for a fortress by changing the ethic and letting dorfs use blowguns.
Best of both wurbles.

[smjjames]

@Dante: If they were iron items, yea maybe.

[Leafsnail]

It would be nice if there were a new option for the ethics, "CULTURAL_CHOICE".  That means that some cultures of that race would find it acceptable while other cultures don't.

As for burning refuse piles, that could come with updates about lighting and so on.

[Neonivek]

It would be nice if there were a new option for the ethics, "CULTURAL_CHOICE".  That means that some cultures of that race would find it acceptable while other cultures don't.

As for burning refuse piles, that could come with updates about lighting and so on.

Well ignoring a possible Range variables that can allow any range.

The game allows two cultures to have the same races.

[Leafsnail]

But, as far as I can tell, they all seem to have the same ethics.  It would be interesting if they had different ethics (so some elves might not cannibalise stuff, and some dwarfs might use poison).

[Areyar]

huh? (@neonivek)

I think the best would be a (racial) raw default value for each ethical issue, with variance per culture set at generation by a racial or global factor in the raw. This way these can be set in stone as well as highly maleable and also moddable.

At later stages of development we can even think of the personal ethics of the ruler affecting the culture as a whole in a dynamic fashion. (f.i. a demonking) As well as other influential events.

[smjjames]

It would be nice if there were a new option for the ethics, "CULTURAL_CHOICE".  That means that some cultures of that race would find it acceptable while other cultures don't.

As for burning refuse piles, that could come with updates about lighting and so on.

Yea, speaking of refuse piles, I just happen to have a magma pipe (although expanded quite a bit on the surface which I'm using as an incinerator of sorts by using the dump all and melt method. I still scan through the stocks to make sure that things that I don't want dumped aren't dumped by accident.