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[smjjames]

I drew the first dwarf described in the dev-log.

Looks too much like a fat leperchaun with all the green.

[Phant]

Man, I just thought they made a hunk of metal as big as they could get without breaking the stick, and then whacked stuff with it.

I think that would qualify as a maul, which the Wikipedia disambiguation page describes as "a simply-made or oversized war hammer"

In my experience, Maul also tends to signify a weapon of a size meant to be swung with both hands/arms. 

And throwing daggers? Cmon... thats hardly dwarfy, why not something along the lines of one of the many, many edged throwing axes used by various African peoples? Like so
or even a Francesca for that matter...

[Leafsnail]

They'd just throw a handful of knives, wouldn't they?

[G-Flex]

Regarding war hammers, making them as heavy as possible is an extremely awful idea.

You need to be able to actually swing the thing. Fast and accurately. They tended to have relatively small (but dense) heads, often with a sort of pick on one side of it.

[Mandaril]

Regarding war hammers, making them as heavy as possible is an extremely awful idea.

You need to be able to actually swing the thing. Fast and accurately. They tended to have relatively small (but dense) heads, often with a sort of pick on one side of it.

Yes, something like this:


That's...well, hammer that's fit for war.

The HUGE hammer/thing is maul/sledgehammer.

[Neonivek]

Just read the new descriptions.

My first impressions is that they seem very random in the sense that every description is just "His" and "His" and "His" giving the impression that it is just a bunch of random descriptors rather then a coherant mass. (I am sure Toady will eventually add structure)

My second is that some qualifiers like "Extremely" arn't too telling in a fantasy game. Is Extremely like Cicero?

My third is that Olivine is soo nice you can like it twice!

Am I supposed to be putting this in spoilers?

[Granite26]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If I do add ropes, all critters will probably be able to use them, because I don't have more control over path-finding.

Do you have any controll over what types of terrain creatures find dangerous?
nb Can you determine 'rope-ladder' construction tiles as dangerous for creatures without prehensile appendages?
I'm assuming pathfinding is reset/blocked by hazardous terrain.

Sounds like that could work since camels bieng able to climb ropes is going to be harder to accept than most other things in DF.

I know, how about that a creature is required to have the grasp tag (implying hands) in order to use the rope? You need the can open doors tag in order to use doors, right? So I can see a similar tag bieng used in this way, although a pre-existing tag might work better.

It's a pathfinding thing...  You know the lag that comes from animals constantly pathfinding to someplace behind a 'no pets' door?  Same principle here.

[Neonivek]

WHOA!!! I didn't even notice Toady answered one of my questions. Too bad I didn't notice earlier.

Complete?  I don't understand.  I've never met a serious martial arts person that thought they were done with anything.  Do you mean applying new knowledge from new styles to moves that you learned before in old styles?  Or something about style construction?

Style construction was basically what I was asking about. (this was written before the rest)

What I mean is a sense that a martial art style is complete; ignoring subsets, alternate styles, and when applied to different mediums; not a martial artist being complete. So to rephrase: Will there be a sense in this game that a martial art style is complete or can it effectively end up with hundreds of moves, stances, and meditations and keep growing?
-Reminds me of an old phrase: Beware not the person who practiced a million moves once but the person who practiced one move a million times.

The Second aspect was, can you take an older style you created that was horrible, but lets say otherwise complete or not, and improve it and/or replace some of the aspects?

To add something (I am a horrible person) to it: In Martial Art styles will there be Fringe/esoteric moves or movesets, outside of alternate versions, that are not required for Mastery of the style but are available to those who need to learn it? Actually this could be expanded to will all martial arts be structured in a similar way with the same paths to learning it or can there be a martial art where the main style is in fact the basics and mastery is picking up one of the alternate styles or Subsets and another where the main style is all that is required for mastery and the subsets represent offshoots?

Goodness... There are a lot of questions you can make for martial arts...

Once again Thanks a lot Toady for answering my/our questions. It stuns me everytime.

[Name Lips]

If dwarfs can climb ropes, and animals can't, we've finally invented animal pens.

Have the pen accessible via a door, then lock the door after they haul the cages in.

Release the animals, then climb out via a rope.

You could use the same setup to trap pets in a drowning chamber - if they can't follow their masters up the escape rope.

[Name Lips]

And re: the debate about whether certain things are "dwarfy" or not - such as poison, throwing knives, soap, shaving, and so on... why not allow the player to decide? Even if he doesn't want his dwarves using those things, he might still want to manufacture them for export. And who's to say you should be FORBIDDEN to allow your dwarves to use these things? If you don't think they're dwarven, don't use them.

But I kind of like the sandbox notion, where if I want to create a tribe of jungle dwarves who have, due to necessity, learned to hunt with poison blowdarts, I know I can do it.

[Leafsnail]

If dwarfs can climb ropes, and animals can't, we've finally invented animal pens.

Have the pen accessible via a door, then lock the door after they haul the cages in.

Release the animals, then climb out via a rope.

You could use the same setup to trap pets in a drowning chamber - if they can't follow their masters up the escape rope.

If by "release" you mean "Drop them down the rope" that sounds like a great idea.  Anyway, soap and shaving and things like that could be part of a wider attempt to make dwarves have more needs to stay happy and stuff.

[Aqizzar]

You guys do realize that Toady hasn't said anything about how he'll implement ropes or ladders or such, or when he'll get to them at all, right?  This rope discussion seems like it's taking on unwarranted gravity for the dev-thread.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah, he just said

Consider rope/ladder/etc. building particularly for downward movement into large open spaces

I have a feeling that we'll get something like this, perhaps not the fully interacting swaying ropes, but something which allows us to get down into the big caverns that will be there from the subterranian update.

[smjjames]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If I do add ropes, all critters will probably be able to use them, because I don't have more control over path-finding.

Do you have any controll over what types of terrain creatures find dangerous?
nb Can you determine 'rope-ladder' construction tiles as dangerous for creatures without prehensile appendages?
I'm assuming pathfinding is reset/blocked by hazardous terrain.

Sounds like that could work since camels bieng able to climb ropes is going to be harder to accept than most other things in DF.

I know, how about that a creature is required to have the grasp tag (implying hands) in order to use the rope? You need the can open doors tag in order to use doors, right? So I can see a similar tag bieng used in this way, although a pre-existing tag might work better.

It's a pathfinding thing...  You know the lag that comes from animals constantly pathfinding to someplace behind a 'no pets' door?  Same principle here.

Maybe the door thing wasn't that great of an example, but it's still just an idea that Toady could work off of, unless he has a plan in mind for this. Although it seems like he is in the same situation as we are in that we aren't sure how to pull it off as far as the pathfinding. I would be happy with a jury rigged hack involving constructing stairs. Given that the spaces involved are going to be huge (think Carlsbad Caverns or some other cave system with huge chambers), it's critical that we have a way besides tunneling over to a wall, but sometimes even that method would be impratical or impossible.

Actually, I have an idea just now, how about we add a tag that is specific for this building that you put into the raws..... or maybe that's the same as my previous idea.

[shiruba]

And re: the debate about whether certain things are "dwarfy" or not - such as poison, throwing knives, soap, shaving, and so on... why not allow the player to decide? Even if he doesn't want his dwarves using those things, he might still want to manufacture them for export. And who's to say you should be FORBIDDEN to allow your dwarves to use these things? If you don't think they're dwarven, don't use them.

But I kind of like the sandbox notion, where if I want to create a tribe of jungle dwarves who have, due to necessity, learned to hunt with poison blowdarts, I know I can do it.

Tottaly seconded, btw I am not trying to criticize the game, I love it, but I think every humanoid race should be able do to anything, dwarves should only do "dwarven" things better.

as a classic cliché, humans should be the most average civ of all, dwarves should have trouble grasping the gist of non-dwarven stuff (read like: slow leveling) but should get to be legendary miners in no time! At least, if Toady or the Community doesnt agree with that, the option to do so should still be modable or switched on/off in the options or something.

sandbox and customization should be the final fate of every great game! =D

now, derailing a bit: will this update be 100% on the army arc and stuff on the dev list? none of the very annoying but small issues with "no pets" door or "driftwood" will be adressed? sorry if that was asked before!