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[corvvs]

What I think he means is that
what is a dwarven 'very long nose' may be a 'normal length nose' to an elf,
just because dwarves generally have stubby, broad noses and elves narrow long ones compared to humans.
(I hate humans, they are so average!)

Or not, this is just what is accepted norm in fantasy, actual norms depend on the raws naturally.

What I meant or what he (ManaUser) meant? I think ManaUser and I both understand this. The difference is, he said the game should describe things by comparing everything to dwarven (or $DEFAULT_RACE) standards, and I said "that's not a good idea - see LOLskinny cat"

If this is (still?) confusing, let me use your elfin nose example:
ManaUser's suggestion -- "This is Elrond. He has a very long nose."
my rebuttal -- "This is Elrond. His nose is totally unremarkable and probably not actually mentioned here because it's completely normal for an elf."


... actually, it might not be bad to explicitly say the differences, but only in the case of huge gaps, and probably only in adventure mode. For instance, a dwarf adventurer, looking at a Cyclops, might say "Wow, he's big... but kinda short for a Cyclops."

Never mind the above - Cyclopes are only interesting in that regard because I've never seen one personally. If I'd grown up in a world where they existed and could be found if you went looking for them, I wouldn't be taken aback by his size, the same way I'm not taken aback by the shortness of my friend's terrier.

[Areyar]

I agree.

Best to describe a species from the pov of that species.
Also Agree with adventuremode, the pov there is from the PC, so he'd think all elves look similar with pointy ears and green trousers etc.
Specific traits would be secondary to the alienness.

A supporting point for this is the preferences thread: preferences take a single distinguishing characteristic of a species that is admired.
ie I like elves because of their pointy ears.
I wonder if preferences are expanded as well, to take advantage of the elaborated cosmetic characteristics?
ie I like dangling earlobes for their metronomic swingning and round, golden eyes for their smooth lustre.

[corvvs]

I wonder if preferences are expanded as well, to take advantage of the elaborated cosmetic characteristics?
ie I like dangling earlobes for their metronomic swingning and round, golden eyes for their smooth lustre.

+1 for this suggestion / hope.

[jpwrunyan]

I think the description paragraph should follow the example of match.com and other dating sites
Information like height, weight, eye color, hair color, hair length, skin color, and basic body type are obviously what we are most interested in real life
I don't think there's much room for speculation or argument
In addition to a standardized description like that above then a dwarfs more prominent features may be Added as additional notes
Again I think a dating sites profile page should provide an excellent model for dwarf fortress
I know we aren't technically interested in dating our dwarfs but many of us are interested in eugenic breeding.  Wait that IS dating

Anyway everyone who has been making suggestions for cleaning up the "somewhat" overly detailed under organized description paragraph has my support

[Protactinium]

And what was the old fetish? Microcline? At least olivine isn't a eye blinding color. Plus I like green anyhow.

I like Microcline's color

Something is wrong with you.

Nothing is good about cyan, bright sky blue, teal, turk-wise, and the dirty color you get when you run your orange marker through freshly wet black marker.

[smjjames]

Unless you mean Turquoise as in the gemstone/mineral, which is pretty neat actually.

[Granite26]

If you're a dwarf everybody else doesn't look tall. Only if you compare them to dwarves. I think most people are perfectly capable of looking at a cat and saying "that cat is rather plump" instead of "OMG! You only weigh 12 kilograms! You're anorexic! I must run you to the hospital immediately!" Most people (and dwarves) can also understand that the average height of a giant is going to be a bit taller than they themselves likely are. I don't think there's anything wrong with the cognitive dissonance necessary to handle the concept of a "short giant" (who is nonetheless more than 6 meters tall or whatever).

Except that people fail totally to do this with other people.  Nordic Viking types, African sprinters and Samoans all have different body types that are perfectly normal for their respective races, but most people, and indeed our(US) very healthcare system is grossly incapable of dealing with the differences as exceptable, normal, or even healthy.

Also, as far as 'from the pov of the race', whose to say that's not the correct interpretation already?  There aren't any quantifiers in the descriptions, so when it says 'abnormally long nose', how do you determine between 'for a dwarf' or 'in general' (which really means for a human)?

[Aqizzar]

...though during a brief time while fixing that the crossbows started shooting me in completely half (because the contact area was being miscalculated -- it was more like they were firing giant saws or something).

For at least a brief time, the mighty crossbow continued it's utter domination of all warfare.

Quick, somebody draw a buzzsaw launcher!

[G-Flex]

The problem with describing dwarves from the perspective of dwarves is that WE don't know what dwarves look like, on average.

There's also the possibility that this is already true, or else every single dwarf would be described as stocky and short.

[finesse]

With the advent of burrows in the next version, will it be possible to set up an area specifically for animals to wander around in (IE : The front of the fort, where they can catch thieves), while the jobless masses meander around the well?

Nope.  You can't tell animals where to go.  At some point you might be able to have them placed in fenced off areas or something, but you can't assign them to burrows in the same way you can with dwarves.

Are you still looking at a ladder/thing that can be built from above for this release? So long as animals can't climb them we can dump them in an animal pit only once, and butcher as they prosper. As it stands, even pet impassible doors are a big nono since they continually try to path past them and slow the FPS down to a crawl.

[Mandaril]

I believe people just make things look worse than they really are. For example, this dwarf has "widely spread teeth".
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/imgs/embark_desc1.png
Doesn't look so bad does it?
http://www.american-dental-solutions.com/images/WidelySpacedTeeth.jpg

[Granite26]

The problem with describing dwarves from the perspective of dwarves is that WE don't know what dwarves look like, on average.

There's also the possibility that this is already true, or else every single dwarf would be described as stocky and short.

WE don't have to know... that's kind of my point...

[darkevilme]

though during a brief time while fixing that the crossbows started shooting me in completely half (because the contact area was being miscalculated -- it was more like they were firing giant saws or something).

I know I've griped a lot about crossbows being overpowered and needing to be fixed. But this puts things in perspective that things could be much much worse. Though at the same time this is kinda awesome and i just know someone is gonna want to try and make a ranged weapon that fires giant serrated iron discs as ammunition.

[Greiger]

For at least a brief time, the mighty crossbow continued it's utter domination of all warfare.

Quick, somebody draw a buzzsaw launcher!

I'm too lazy to draw.

The Unreal Tournament Ripper.


Not a very good image because it's from an old game, but its basically a crossbow that shoots serrated disks.  I imagine toady's dwarves running around with those now.

Probably not there yet, but is there any plans to make the rope/ladder system that allows dwarves to climb into a lower area only a temporary solution for getting down?  For example could it take damage every time a dwarf uses it or prevent hauling making the player have to replace the rope eventually with more permanent constructions?  It just seems silly to me to have a flimsy rope ladder as a heavily trafficked permanent route in a fortress.

[Warlord255]

...though during a brief time while fixing that the crossbows started shooting me in completely half (because the contact area was being miscalculated -- it was more like they were firing giant saws or something).

For at least a brief time, the mighty crossbow continued it's utter domination of all warfare.

Quick, somebody draw a buzzsaw launcher!

I actually have schematics for a theoretically feasible circular-saw launching crossbow.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Only problem is that shooting a spinning object would, more likely than not, cause said object to simply roll off with minimal damage rather than cutting into the target with its rotational force; it'd deal the most damage from the impact of its forward momentum, with the serration being a moderate side effect. And if that's the case, it's easier to not waste the effort on giving a projectile rotational speed before firing it.