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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3624159 times)

Exponent

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3120 on: July 18, 2009, 10:24:36 am »

The way I understand it (thinking as a programmer and what would be easiest to program, and based on what Toady has said) is the following:  Any tile can belong to any number of burrows (zero or more).  Thus every burrow can be any shape or size, can have disconnected pieces, and can overlap any other burrow in any manner.

For pathfinding, I think the only concern is if the target location is in an allowed burrow.  If so, then the pathfinding operates normally, without regard to burrows.  If not, then the target is considered inaccessible (unless the dwarf is desperate enough to ignore burrow restrictions), and no pathing is performed.  So no, even if the starting and target location are within the same burrow, the dwarf will not specifically attempt to stay within the burrow when pathfinding.  If the shortest path temporarily leaves the burrow, the dwarf will follow that path.
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Zironic

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3121 on: July 18, 2009, 05:27:13 pm »

These burrows are really going to improved functionality. However, I keep getting this evil thought that if 1. Dwarfs don't breed by spores anymore and 2. we can see what they look like, then it is entirely possible to initiate a form of Dwarven Eugenics.

I can imagine it now,
Player: His beard is short! - TO THE GHETTOS WITH HIM.
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Fieari

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3122 on: July 18, 2009, 07:50:59 pm »

Dwarves don't breed by spores, they breed telekenetically.  The difference is that spores are random, effecting just anyone.  Telekenetically indicates that they do choose their spouses, they just don't have to be near each other to do the deed.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3123 on: July 18, 2009, 08:36:38 pm »

These burrows are really going to improved functionality. However, I keep getting this evil thought that if 1. Dwarfs don't breed by spores anymore and 2. we can see what they look like, then it is entirely possible to initiate a form of Dwarven Eugenics.

I can imagine it now,
Player: His beard is short! - TO THE GHETTOS WITH HIM.

This already came up in the NFotF thread:

Quote from: Toady One
Quote
eugenics stuff

Yeah, I'm quite mindful that when I mentioned people can breed dogs now, of course the enterprising player is going to be doing all sorts of whatever who knows.  The timeframe is probably a bit grueling to get anything like that started with dwarves though, as you'd need something like a 12 year fortress to even get started, but the only restrictions I think I'm planning to put in place (in a future release) are having creatures notice when they are being selected against -- it's sort of a tricky problem, but if the last ten dwarves to die all had red beards, I think the other red-bearded dwarves might start to notice and either flee or take action against their leaders, and that's certainly easy enough to code, though applying it outside of a controlled environment like the player's fortress is more difficult.  I'm vaguely worried about how much untoward player experiments will crap up the forum with flamewars and racism, but I don't think it'll be so much that it can't be handled properly.

From a more "gamey" perspective, and looking back at pets again, say, breeding things to be larger doesn't really have a downside at this point.  What are the downsides to explore?  More food (assuming pets need to be fed later) and genetic disorders, especially when you are at the edges of the allowed parameters for a given creature?  It would be cool to have little dog breeds that do little dog breed jobs like ferreting out pests and so on.  They are also easier to carry and knit sweaters for, though that involves creature weights and item sizes, neither of which are really handled well.
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Zironic

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3124 on: July 18, 2009, 09:49:59 pm »

These burrows are really going to improved functionality. However, I keep getting this evil thought that if 1. Dwarfs don't breed by spores anymore and 2. we can see what they look like, then it is entirely possible to initiate a form of Dwarven Eugenics.

I can imagine it now,
Player: His beard is short! - TO THE GHETTOS WITH HIM.

This already came up in the NFotF thread:

Quote from: Toady One
Quote
eugenics stuff

Yeah, I'm quite mindful that when I mentioned people can breed dogs now, of course the enterprising player is going to be doing all sorts of whatever who knows.  The timeframe is probably a bit grueling to get anything like that started with dwarves though, as you'd need something like a 12 year fortress to even get started, but the only restrictions I think I'm planning to put in place (in a future release) are having creatures notice when they are being selected against -- it's sort of a tricky problem, but if the last ten dwarves to die all had red beards, I think the other red-bearded dwarves might start to notice and either flee or take action against their leaders, and that's certainly easy enough to code, though applying it outside of a controlled environment like the player's fortress is more difficult.  I'm vaguely worried about how much untoward player experiments will crap up the forum with flamewars and racism, but I don't think it'll be so much that it can't be handled properly.

From a more "gamey" perspective, and looking back at pets again, say, breeding things to be larger doesn't really have a downside at this point.  What are the downsides to explore?  More food (assuming pets need to be fed later) and genetic disorders, especially when you are at the edges of the allowed parameters for a given creature?  It would be cool to have little dog breeds that do little dog breed jobs like ferreting out pests and so on.  They are also easier to carry and knit sweaters for, though that involves creature weights and item sizes, neither of which are really handled well.

Rebellion!, That actually seems pretty reasonable considering the blatant genocide carried out at random now. Even my own fortresses, I stop carrying about individuals after a while.

Another question about the recent dev_now, Toady mention controlling population params for seiges, that means how many dwarfs you need. Not, how many siegers will be sent? Because, I think the current sieges feel underwhelming, I don't even use weapons any more. 30 Champion wrestlers.
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diefortheswarm

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3125 on: July 19, 2009, 04:56:59 pm »

Toady you said that you plan on implementing the top 10 suggestions from the eternal suggestion poll after this update is finished.  Will full graphics support be included in this?  It is number 12 on the poll.  By "full graphics support"  I mean replacing all the ASCII tiles with real images and tiles.
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BigFatDwarf

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3126 on: July 19, 2009, 05:28:32 pm »

He'll never do so and eliminate ASCII. He might, however, make it easier for others to create such graphic packs.
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LordNagash

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3127 on: July 19, 2009, 06:42:39 pm »

Toady you said that you plan on implementing the top 10 suggestions from the eternal suggestion poll after this update is finished.  Will full graphics support be included in this?  It is number 12 on the poll. By "full graphics support"  I mean replacing all the ASCII tiles with real images and tiles.

You... kind of answered your own question.

Edit: Actually if you take out the two suggestions that are already in the next version then full graphics support makes it into the top 10.

But it doesn't mean changing all the stuff in the stock game over to graphics, it means allowing for modders to create full graphics sets and tilesets without causing weirdness in text etc.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 06:57:46 pm by LordNagash »
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Org

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3128 on: July 19, 2009, 07:51:47 pm »

somewhere, Toady said something about duel-wielding. Does this mean:
1)Actually having two weapons in fort mode in hands
or
2)Like it is now, not using both at the same time
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3129 on: July 19, 2009, 08:46:42 pm »

Toady you said that you plan on implementing the top 10 suggestions from the eternal suggestion poll after this update is finished.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt he'd do something as simple as picking the top 10 no matter what they are and doing them.

After all, the eternal suggestions poll results vary a lot in terms of scope and complexity, and a lot of people wanting something doesn't necessarily make it the best or most urgent idea anyow.
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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3130 on: July 19, 2009, 09:12:32 pm »

I think he said he'd look at/consider the top ten voted results, not necessarily implement all of them.
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Dakk

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3131 on: July 19, 2009, 09:26:19 pm »

The top 10 are pretty reasonable sugestions mostly, some are even in the game already (IE standing work orders, just put the damn thing on repeat), but yea, i do agree that toady will consider them first and not actually just pick 'em up just because they're the top 10.

Anyway i really want adventurer mode's skills :D , it would add so much more fun to adventurer mode in a slinge move.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 12:52:43 am by Dakk »
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3132 on: July 20, 2009, 01:10:31 am »

I think I probably just read a couple statements too literally on account of I'm tired. On second thought, I doubt Toady will be completely disregarding suggestions a bit lower on the list if they're good and well-reasoned.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 01:37:41 am by G-Flex »
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James.Denholm

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3133 on: July 20, 2009, 01:57:37 am »

(IE standing work orders, just put the damn thing on repeat)

Not realy, I did that once and ran out of plump helmets really, really quickly. Queue starvation.
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SimRobert2001

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3134 on: July 20, 2009, 04:02:17 am »

not only that but you can also do so in the manager (j-> m) you just have to have a manager noble in an office to work through the orders and approve them.
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