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[Jakkarra]

i never thought of it like that Baughn, it would actually be preferble to do these things as early as possible, im VERY sure some of these cosmetic changes WILL break save compatibility.

think about it, would you rather have a fairly early version (the next one) break save compatability with all previous versions, or a late one? meaning that, for example, if these were placed in last we would have the final version as an effectively stand-alone product which would keep many players from using said last version.

Begin cosideration Procedure Alpha-Lambda nnnnnnnnnnnnOW.

[Evil One]

It isn't. Chances are good that, by Toady considering these "engravings" now instead of later, he'll avoid having to tear down half the wall later to retrofit them.

Nah most of this stuff is just surface alterations, like hair or eye colour and unless he intend to do a system whereby each person recognizes and prefers specific hair or eye colour its doesn't have a massive impact.

[Mephansteras]

It isn't. Chances are good that, by Toady considering these "engravings" now instead of later, he'll avoid having to tear down half the wall later to retrofit them.

Nah most of this stuff is just surface alterations, like hair or eye colour and unless he intend to do a system whereby each person recognizes and prefers specific hair or eye colour its doesn't have a massive impact.

Not really. The stuff like hair and eye color were all part of the complete redesign of tissue layers, bodies, and materials. Yes, hair and eye color aren't that important, but they're trivial compared to the amount of work that went into redoing that system.

And that system will have a huge impact on the game. Combat will work differently, weapons and armor will work differently, monsters like Magmamen will be very different...it's probably one of the biggest changes to the game yet (other then the z-axis).

The descriptive paragraphs that say that someone has blue eyes and a scar on their right arms aren't critical, no, but they're very neat and didn't take that long for Toady to add in along with everything else he was doing. And it's fun and interesting for him and a lot of players.

[PTTG??]

Look, I don't care if save compatibility breaks every two weeks. Worst case senario, you just keep using the same version you always have- after all, nobody is forcing you to update.
And if you want the new features, well, you might as well start a new game anyway..

[Footkerchief]

Look, I don't care if save compatibility breaks every two weeks. Worst case senario, you just keep using the same version you always have- after all, nobody is forcing you to update.
And if you want the new features, well, you might as well start a new game anyway..

The save compat discussion is really running in circles.  Everyone already knows that nobody cares about save compat yet.

[Mr.Person]

The descriptive paragraphs that say that someone has blue eyes and a scar on their right arms aren't critical, no, but they're very neat and didn't take that long for Toady to add in along with everything else he was doing. And it's fun and interesting for him and a lot of players.

That depends on how descriptive he takes the whole thing. Have you seen the descriptions in Armok 1? They're overkill. On the other hand, some descriptions are necessary. Scaring, specifically, but also things like skin details (hardness, color, ect.), but almost all of the details are completely unnecessary, just extras Toady threw in because he felt like it.

[cibbuano]

While I agree that cosmetic changes don't really affect the gameplay for me, it's with great delight that I note that these details have been included...

... and while we don't have these cosmetics affecting the game now, I look forward to a day when my fortress military might split in two, because a squad of blue-eyed, braided-beard dwarves have decided that they don't get along with the other, non-blue eyed dwarves.

They'd go off to marry blue-eyed, braided-beard dwarven women, and they'd segregate themselves off from the other dwarves, starting fights and refusing to work. I'd shriek maniacally at them to make trifle pewter items for my damned nobles, but they'd just be sitting there, revolting against my orders.

[Rockphed]

My point was that it's perhaps a better idea to build/carve the wall BEFORE you start 'engraving' it.

Many buildings don't have a facade.  Their cosmetic doodads are part of the same blocks that support the building.  Even if those blocks were carved after being put in place, they still needed the extra volume to engrave.  To take this analogy way further than it was ever meant to stretch, the cosmetic needs to be considered right along with the structural.  It might be best to leave the cosmetic until after all the structure is done, but it needs to be planned at the same time as the i-beams and foundation.

In the case of descriptive paragraphs, I understand that they are a step down the road to fully randomized worlds where borgly borgles borgle their borgly way into your fortress and maul your carpenters.  Their borgly borgles borgle with borgly delight as they drink the fresh blood.  Just because the thing Toady most often associated the descriptive paragraphs with was more in depth information about dwarves, doesn't mean that they have no utility.

[Pruvan]

While I agree that cosmetic changes don't really affect the gameplay for me, it's with great delight that I note that these details have been included...

... and while we don't have these cosmetics affecting the game now, I look forward to a day when my fortress military might split in two, because a squad of blue-eyed, braided-beard dwarves have decided that they don't get along with the other, non-blue eyed dwarves.

They'd go off to marry blue-eyed, braided-beard dwarven women, and they'd segregate themselves off from the other dwarves, starting fights and refusing to work. I'd shriek maniacally at them to make trifle pewter items for my damned nobles, but they'd just be sitting there, revolting against my orders.

And I long for the day when said Dwarves seperate themselves entirely from your main fortress and start a new one not far off (still on the same map) only for them to declare war on you for supremacy over the world square the two fortresses are on. When Dwarf fights Dwarf, chaos ensues.

If not realtime, something similar during worldgen would be kickass.

[Techhead]

While I agree that cosmetic changes don't really affect the gameplay for me, it's with great delight that I note that these details have been included...

... and while we don't have these cosmetics affecting the game now, I look forward to a day when my fortress military might split in two, because a squad of blue-eyed, braided-beard dwarves have decided that they don't get along with the other, non-blue eyed dwarves.

They'd go off to marry blue-eyed, braided-beard dwarven women, and they'd segregate themselves off from the other dwarves, starting fights and refusing to work. I'd shriek maniacally at them to make trifle pewter items for my damned nobles, but they'd just be sitting there, revolting against my orders.

And I long for the day when said Dwarves seperate themselves entirely from your main fortress and start a new one not far off (still on the same map) only for them to declare war on you for supremacy over the world square the two fortresses are on. When Dwarf fights Dwarf, chaos ensues.

If not realtime, something similar during worldgen would be kickass.

I hope the blue-eyed, braid-bearded dwarves don't elect an extremely charismatic mayor with extremest views. First he'll strengthen the economy, build up a strong military, construct large works of infrastructure, finance elaborate inventions. Then, he'll start segregating dwarves in cramped low-class housing, forcing them to do labor without any breaks, and throwing any who cannot work into magma exectution chambers.

Wait, his policies and programs wouldn't be too different from those of many dwarf fortress players today...

[Jonathan S. Fox]

While I agree that cosmetic changes don't really affect the gameplay for me, it's with great delight that I note that these details have been included...

... and while we don't have these cosmetics affecting the game now, I look forward to a day when my fortress military might split in two, because a squad of blue-eyed, braided-beard dwarves have decided that they don't get along with the other, non-blue eyed dwarves.

They'd go off to marry blue-eyed, braided-beard dwarven women, and they'd segregate themselves off from the other dwarves, starting fights and refusing to work. I'd shriek maniacally at them to make trifle pewter items for my damned nobles, but they'd just be sitting there, revolting against my orders.

And I long for the day when said Dwarves seperate themselves entirely from your main fortress and start a new one not far off (still on the same map) only for them to declare war on you for supremacy over the world square the two fortresses are on. When Dwarf fights Dwarf, chaos ensues.

If not realtime, something similar during worldgen would be kickass.

I hope the blue-eyed, braid-bearded dwarves don't elect an extremely charismatic mayor with extremest views. First he'll strengthen the economy, build up a strong military, construct large works of infrastructure, finance elaborate inventions. Then, he'll start segregating dwarves in cramped low-class housing, forcing them to do labor without any breaks, and throwing any who cannot work into magma exectution chambers.

Wait, his policies and programs wouldn't be too different from those of many dwarf fortress players today...

I was going to say, you're thinking of the player.

[Stele007]

I have fun writing up the dev log entries like the one I wrote for today, but now that I've talked about it, I have to do it, which is still cool, but there won't be that much more to say that hasn't been said (there's not even a lot that can go spectacularly-and-amusingly wrong during testing here, just plain wrong, which isn't fun).

You should have just chopped up June 2nd's entry and spread it out over the month!  There's still time -- you can edit out the post!  I'll keep my lips sealed.

[Ampersand]

Yeah, nothing will be better than the time the whole world was made of dwarf flesh.

[Silveron]

Yeah, nothing will be better than the time the whole world was made of dwarf flesh.

I'm fond of the time the whole inside of the world melted and fell into the center of the world.

[Vlynndar]

Godwin's law. I would never have thought this thread would come to that.